How did ‘concern’ semantically shift to mean ‘commercial enterprise' ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the semantic shift of the word "concern" from its Latin roots to its modern usage as a term for a commercial enterprise. Participants explore the relationship between the various meanings of "concern," particularly the distinction between its sense of "worries" and its application in business contexts. The conversation delves into etymology, historical usage, and the nuances of language evolution.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the meanings of "concern" as "worries" and "commercial enterprise" are related through notions of busyness and engagement in tasks.
  • Others argue for a detailed tracing of semantic shifts from Latin "concernō" to English "concern," questioning how and why this evolution occurred.
  • A participant mentions that the term "concern" is an old English word for an establishment or business, prompting inquiries about its usage compared to more intuitive terms like "business" or "corporation."
  • Some participants suggest that the modern use of "concern" may have been influenced by the German term "konzern," which refers to a conglomerate of companies.
  • There is a discussion about the importance of using reputable sources for etymology, with references to the Oxford English Dictionary and Etymonline as potential resources.
  • One participant provides a narrative on the evolution of the word, linking its meanings to concepts of importance, engagement, and the linguistic influences of Norman and Germanic languages.
  • Another participant questions the speculative nature of some claims and emphasizes the need for proper referencing in discussions of etymology.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with some agreeing on the need for further research and clarification, while others contest the interpretations and connections made regarding the semantic shifts. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the etymology and usage of "concern."

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential for missing assumptions in the semantic evolution, the dependence on definitions of terms, and unresolved questions regarding the historical context of language changes.

scherz0
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No, it's not a "concern" in the sense of "worries". It's a concern in the sense of "commercial enterprise, entity".

PS: From the sense of busyness came the business meaning of “concern” I suppose.

1. How are these 2 senses of concern related? What semantic notions underlie the popular sense of 'worries', with this esoteric sense of 'commercial enterprise'? I need much more detail than these snippety sentences above.

2. Please trace all semantic shifts from Latin concernō (“I mix, sift, or mingle together, as in a sieve”) to this sense of English ‘concern’? How, and why, did concernō shift to ‘concern’ meaning "an establishment for the transaction of business"?

I never heard of this 'obscure meaning where it means "business"'!

"FYI a "concern" is quite old english for an establishment or business of some kind.“

3. But why use "concern" when "business”, "corporation", or "enterprise" are more intuitive and understandable?

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1) do NOT use color and large print. It is obnoxious and is considered screaming and is totally unnecessary.

2) This is not a Q&A forum where you just as a question and expect US to do the research. For things like your item #2 in particular, we expect YOU to do some research and then ask questions about anything that confuses you from that research.
 
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phinds said:
1) do NOT use color and large print. It is obnoxious and is considered screaming and is totally unnecessary.

2) This is not a Q&A forum where you just as a question and expect US to do the research. For things like your item #2 in particular, we expect YOU to do some research and then ask questions about anything that confuses you from that research.

Sorry about #1. But you are incorrect on 2. I did so much research. Don't you see all my links to external sources?

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phinds said:
we expect YOU to do some research and then ask questions about anything that confuses you from that research.
scherz0 said:
But you are incorrect on 2. I did so much research. Don't you see all my links to external sources?
Your quote on #2:
scherz0 said:
Please trace all semantic shifts from Latin concernō
It sure sounds like you want us to do a bunch of reading and summarize our thoughts for you. That's a big ask...
 
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berkeman said:
LOL @Bystander you fixed that for him? :smile:
Grammar Police never rest. Sleep at switches off and on, but....
 
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scherz0 said:
1. How are these 2 senses of concern related? What semantic notions underlie the popular sense of 'worries', with this esoteric sense of 'commercial enterprise'? I need much more detail than these snippety sentences above.

2. Please trace all semantic shifts from Latin concernō (“I mix, sift, or mingle together, as in a sieve”) to this sense of English ‘concern’? How, and why, did concernō shift to ‘concern’ meaning "an establishment for the transaction of business"?
If you are interested in etymology then you need to use a good etymological dictionary: for the English language the 'gold standard' here is the Oxford English Dictionary (OED). Purchasing this as an individual is pretty much out of the question (although the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (SOD) is an accessible alternative) and online subscription is not cheap, however you should be able to access it from any major library.

Looking up what people say on the internet is not research.

scherz0 said:
I never heard of this 'obscure meaning where it means "business"'!
The link you quoted discusses the adjectival phrase 'a going concern': this is an important phrase in business law in most English speaking countries and if this is the phrase you are interested in then you should research this rather than the noun 'concern'.

scherz0 said:
3. But why use "concern" when "business”, "corporation", or "enterprise" are more intuitive and understandable?
Because these words mean different things.
 
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  • #10
scherz0 said:
3. But why use "concern" when "business”, "corporation", or "enterprise" are more intuitive and understandable?
A detailed answer would require quite a digging, but it might help if you think about this shift within the context of 'my concern, my business'...
....and actually only half of that is joke. Those meanings are not that far from each other.
 
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  • #11
OED is a bit pricey, but one can always use etymonline for a degree of insight. It's free, solid, and iirc uses OED as one of its main sources.

As for the meaning shift, here's a rough-and-ready story one could piece together:
You start with the verb for using a sieve. This naturally lends itself to the meaning of discerning, separating, distinguishing - because that's what you implicitly do when you use a sieve.
From there you get: to be of importance to oneself, affect one's interest, and also worry - as these are the states of mind involved.
This in turn leads to the meaning of being busy, engaged in a task, focused on doing something - from the more superficial appearance of the former sense.

Along the way the verbs are getting nouned, as is the wont of the English language.
From the meaning of being important to oneself emerges a noun for regard, reference.
The noun and the verb keep cross-pollinating as they evolve, though. The regard, reference meaning largely fades away, while from being busy etc. we get the noun meaning for business, establishment, occupation.

And that would be the end of the story. However, I strongly suspect that meaning itself faded away from English, and the word's modern use in this sense is largely influenced by the German konzern, which is a large conglomerate of companies common therein and in other parts of Europe. Where, having done some business with the Germans at some point, the English language dusted off the old word with similar enough sense and called it a day.

As for why would concern even develop when business was already available - probably the same reason beef and pork developed despite cow and pig already grazing the linguistic landscape. It's them Normans putting their ill-fitting Frenchy hat onto the local Germanic bumpkins. So that raising cows may be the business of the common folk, while the fancy aristocrats concern themselves with eating beef.
 
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  • #12
Bandersnatch said:
here's a rough-and-ready story one could piece together:
Is this just personal speculation? If so it does not belong here, and if not then it should be referenced.

Bandersnatch said:
However, I strongly suspect that meaning itself faded away from English, and the word's modern use in this sense is largely influenced by the German konzern, which is a large conglomerate of companies common therein and in other parts of Europe. Where, having done some business with the Germans at some point, the English language dusted off the old word with similar enough sense and called it a day.
None of this is correct. The modern use in English is mainly in the phrase 'going concern' which predates the German 'Konzern', which I believe was only defined in 1965, by more than a century https://www.oed.com/dictionary/going-concern_n.
 
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  • #13
pbuk said:
Is this just personal speculation?
That's pretty much rephrased etymonline's entries for the evolution of the verb and the noun.

pbuk said:
None of this is correct. The modern use in English is mainly in the phrase 'going concern' which predates the German 'Konzern', which I believe was only defined in 1965, by more than a century https://www.oed.com/dictionary/going-concern_n.
This one's just my gut feeling, yes. It's the usage I'm most familiar with from occasionally translating business documents, but it might be just selection bias.
If I were to make an argument, I'd take a look at the frequency of occurrence of just the noun concern. It raises significantly in around 1960s. How much of that increase is due to the appearance of concern as a term in business lingo vs unrelated increase in the other meanings I can't tell (there might be a detailed breakdown for OED subscribers), but it's at least plausible there's a link.
 
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  • #15
One could equally ask when and why "business" has anything to do with women's rights ( as in "that's not your business" trom gov. Tin Walz ) Such are the vagaries of time and place in human enterprise.
(Why) is this interesting?