Unveiling Einstein's Genius: The Secrets Behind His Groundbreaking Formulas

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the origins and derivation of Einstein's theories of Special Relativity (SR) and General Relativity (GR), particularly focusing on how Einstein formulated his equations and the concepts of time dilation and Lorentz transformations. Participants explore the historical context, mathematical foundations, and the contributions of other physicists like H.A. Lorentz.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about how Einstein derived his formulas, particularly regarding time dilation and the implications of traveling at relativistic speeds.
  • One participant notes that Einstein could not directly prove time dilation due to the limitations of clock accuracy at the time.
  • Another participant highlights that Einstein's insights were influenced by the Michelson-Morley experiment, which challenged existing notions in physics.
  • It is mentioned that Lorentz developed the Lorentz transformations through mathematical manipulation of Maxwell's equations, focusing on the relationships between space and time for moving systems.
  • Some argue that Einstein's derivation of the Lorentz transformations was based on his two postulates: the constancy of the speed of light and the universality of physical laws, using a model involving a moving mirror.
  • There is a claim that many concepts attributed to Einstein, such as time dilation and length contraction, were originally introduced by Lorentz, suggesting that Einstein's work built upon Lorentz's earlier ideas.
  • One participant introduces a modern perspective on the implications of the proper mass of photons and how it might alter interpretations of Maxwell's equations and the constancy of light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the extent of Einstein's originality compared to Lorentz's contributions, with some asserting that Einstein's work was derivative while others emphasize his unique approach and insights. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the degree to which Einstein's theories were independent innovations versus extensions of Lorentz's earlier work.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the historical accuracy of claims regarding the originality of concepts like time dilation and the completeness of Einstein's derivations without the full framework of Maxwell's equations. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of the implications of the constancy of light and the nature of photons.

aychamo
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Ok. I have a question on SR/GR with regards to Einstein. How did he come up with this? That's what I don't understand about physics and physicists. How do they derive a formula that represents what they are trying to express?

And especially with regards to Einstein. His relativity formulas are amazing, and that they can calculate time dilation, something that I don't even know if he could prove or not.

From what I understand physics majors in college do an experiment with detecting muons from the atmosphere that verify Einstein's relativity theory, but did Einstein have access to the same type of thing in his time?

So basically what I'm asking is how was he able to come up with a formula that told him that at .865c time slows down by half or whatever.

Thanks
AYCHAMO
 
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Originally posted by aychamo
His relativity formulas are amazing, and that they can calculate time dilation, something that I don't even know if he could prove or not.
No, he could not directly prove time dilation at the time - clocks were not accurate enough.

As I understand it, Einstein was a daydreamer. That's what's so compelling about him to so many people. He knew about a problem that existed in physics: the Michelson/Morely experiment produced a result people didn't expect. The answer to the question is simple, but difficult to accept if you've never seen it before. Einstein was able to accept the logical implication of the MM experiment and had the mathematical skills to derive the models for it.
So basically what I'm asking is how was he able to come up with a formula that told him that at .865c time slows down by half or whatever.
I'm not sure he was the first to come up with them (Lorenz transformations), but they are actually relatively simple geometric relationships. The big leap is accepting that time is a variable, not a constant. Basically, you think of several cases and compare them. The starting assumption is that C is constant, and the implications (time must vary) follow directly. You think: 'for a person traveling at .866C, what must happen for him to still measure C as C and not .133C?'
 
Lorentz came up with the Lorentz transformations. He did it by maathematically manipulating Maxwell's equations for electromagnetism. The problem was to find the relations of space and time between two electrodynamic systems in constant motion relative to one another. The simple, or naive, transformations t -> t' and x -> x + vt when substituted into Maxwell's equations destroyed the nature of the equations and so were impossible. Lorentz found that you had to do linear transformations involving both time and space. He considered this just an electrodynamic feature.

Einstein gave a constructive proof of Lorentz's transformations by considering observers trying to measure times and lengths and communicating their findings at the speed of light. It is entirely possible that Einstein got his idea by thinking of people on a train and on the ground in the manner of his famous example. The consequence of Einstein's approach was that there was no need for an ether, and that simultenaity was also relativised.
 
Einstein was able to derive the Lorentz transforms based on his 2 postulates, the constancy of c, and universal laws of physics. He used the model of a moving mirror to create a differential equation, the solution to this equation is the Lorentz transforms. He did not use the entire frame work of Maxwell for this derivation, only the constancy of c, which by the way is a result of Maxwell's equations.
 
Originally posted by aychamo
Ok. I have a question on SR/GR with regards to Einstein. How did he come up with this?
Thanks
AYCHAMO

Einstein didn’t come up with it. H.A. Lorentz did. Lorentz was the one who introduced “time dilation”, “length contraction”, “mass increase”, a “limiting speed of c”, and many other ideas that are now attributed to Einstein. Einstein copied much of his 1905 SR theory from H.A. Lorentz’s 1895 book. I finally obtained a copy of that rare book, and here is a page from it where Lorentz introduced length contraction and the famous Lorentz Transformation.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4dc32b3127cceb821b68ead3f0000001610
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Originally posted by Integral
Einstein was able to derive the Lorentz transforms based on his 2 postulates, the constancy of c, and universal laws of physics. He used the model of a moving mirror to create a differential equation, the solution to this equation is the Lorentz transforms. He did not use the entire frame work of Maxwell for this derivation, only the constancy of c, which by the way is a result of Maxwell's equations.

In modern terms: If one assumes that that proper mass of a photon is zero then the Principle of Relativity, coupled with Maxwell
's equations, predicts that the speed of light is independent of the source. If one does not assume that the photon has zero proper mass then things are a bit different. Maxwell's equations are them modified to include the proper mass of the photon. In such case Maxwell's equations can be derived from a Lagrangian whereby a term is added to compensate for the non-vanishing of the proper mass of the photon. The term is proportional to the magnitude of the 4-potential. The resulting Lagrangian is known as the Proca Lagrangian. The "constancy of light" postulate is then interpreted as something else. E.g. there is still an invariant speed. It's just not the speed of light.
 

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