How did it get to that? Stretching Coulomb's law

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves calculating the electric potential at the axis of a disk with a uniform surface charge density. Participants are discussing the implications of Coulomb's law and the behavior of the electric field as the distance from the disk increases.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are examining the relationship between the electric field and distance from the disk, particularly questioning the transition to a point charge approximation as z becomes much larger than R. There is discussion about the validity of the expressions for the electric field and potential, including a suggestion to use a binomial expansion for simplification.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of the mathematical steps involved in deriving the electric field from the potential. Some participants express uncertainty about the correctness of the expressions provided in the source material, while others are attempting to clarify the reasoning behind the approximations used.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working with a specific reference text, which may contain potential discrepancies. The discussion includes considerations of limits and approximations that are relevant to the problem at hand.

zimo
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Homework Statement



The charge is distributed with uniform
surface density σ on the disk of radius R. Find the potential
at the axis of the disk.

Homework Equations



Coulomb's law and the definition of a electric potential at point x

The Attempt at a Solution



I have a solution in front of me but can't understand some step inside it:

The potential can be defined now

phi(x)= (1/4pi*epsilon0)Integral[(sigma(x')/|x-x'|)dS'] and the solution for the integral from 0 to R is:

(sigma/2*epsilon0)(sqrt(x^2+R^2)-z)

Now, the electric field at this point is:

E(z)=(sigma/2*epsilon0)(1-(z/sqrt(z^2+R^2))

I can clearly follow until now, but then the book says that for z>>R we get

E=Q/(4pi*epsilon0*z)

where Q is the total charge of the disc.

How can it be proportional to 1/z?? when I take z>>R - I get E(z)=0...
 
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zimo said:
I can clearly follow until now, but then the book says that for z>>R we get

E=Q/(4pi*epsilon0*z)
Are you sure that z isn't z²?

How can it be proportional to 1/z?? when I take z>>R - I get E(z)=0...
The point is to see how the field drops off. Hint: Do a binomial expansion.
 
Doc Al said:
Are you sure that z isn't z²?


The point is to see how the field drops off. Hint: Do a binomial expansion.

1. Yeah, I'm sure. I double checked it.

2. what kind of a binomial expansion can I possibly make here? please direct me some more...
 
zimo said:
1. Yeah, I'm sure. I double checked it.
I'd say that was wrong. What book are you using?

2. what kind of a binomial expansion can I possibly make here? please direct me some more...
For example:
[tex]\sqrt{z^2 + R^2} = z\sqrt{1 + (R/z)^2}[/tex]

Since R/z << 1, can you see how to use a binomial approximation now?
 
Doc Al said:
I'd say that was wrong. What book are you using?

http://www.ph.biu.ac.il/data/teach/l/86-234/electrodynamics11.pdf" , third page.

Doc Al said:
For example:
[tex]\sqrt{z^2 + R^2} = z\sqrt{1 + (R/z)^2}[/tex]

Since R/z << 1, can you see how to use a binomial approximation now?

You mean the approximation is ~= 1+z^2/2*R^2?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
zimo said:
http://www.ph.biu.ac.il/data/teach/l/86-234/electrodynamics11.pdf" , third page.
OK, but I think it's a typo. As you get far enough away, its field should be that of a point charge.
You mean the approximation is ~= 1+z^2/2*R^2?
Something like that: √(1 + R²/z²) ≈ 1 + ½R²/z²
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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