How Do Binary Dwarf/Neutron Stars get so close?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms by which binary white dwarf and neutron star systems can evolve to have very short orbital periods, specifically addressing how they can get so close together over time. The scope includes theoretical considerations, evolutionary processes, and gravitational dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that binary stars originally start at a greater distance and gradually come closer over time, necessitating faster orbits to maintain stability.
  • It is noted that white dwarfs are small and dense, allowing them to orbit closely without immediate collision or merging, although merging is a possibility in the long term.
  • One participant suggests that if the original stars are neutron stars, their smaller size could lead to even faster orbits, potentially resulting in mergers within seconds.
  • Another viewpoint discusses the evolution of a close binary system where one star is a white dwarf and the other a main-sequence star, suggesting that the main-sequence star's expansion could lead to a dynamic that brings them closer together.
  • A later reply highlights that while gravitational radiation can drive orbital decay in close binaries, it does not explain the initial proximity of the stars, suggesting that magnetized stellar winds may also play a role in reducing angular momentum and energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on the mechanisms that allow binary stars to get close, with no consensus reached on a singular explanation.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the initial conditions of the binary systems and the specific evolutionary pathways remain unaddressed, leaving certain aspects of the discussion unresolved.

AdamAutism1998
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I am a little puzzled with how there is a White Dwarf Binary of Five Minutes. How do they get so close?
 
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It's more than likely that the two stars originally were more distant from each other and orbiting more slowly.
Over a very long they have become closer, and so would need to orbit faster so that orbit is maintained.
Remember white dwarfs are very small and dense, so they could get very close together without actually colliding or merging.
Maybe this pair have settled into this small orbit and will stay that way for a long time, then again in the long run it's possible they will end up merging.
The result would probably be a neutron star, or possibly a black hole, and likely there would be a supernova event just before that.

If the original stars already are neutron stars, these are even smaller and denser then white dwarfs, and a binary pair could likely orbit even more rapidly before merging, (or exploding), could be in the region of seconds.
 
rootone said:
It's more than likely that the two stars originally were more distant from each other and orbiting more slowly.
Over a very long they have become closer, and so would need to orbit faster so that orbit is maintained.
Remember white dwarfs are very small and dense, so they could get very close together without actually colliding or merging.
Maybe this pair have settled into this small orbit and will stay that way for a long time, then again in the long run it's possible they will end up merging.
The result would probably be a neutron star, or possibly a black hole, and likely there would be a supernova event just before that.
Interesting. That's very good. Though I didn't think they would naturally get so close from just evolution.

I used to believe it was from a close binary in which one star is a white dwarf, and the other is a main-sequence. They orbit really close together, almost as a W Ursae Majoris variable. When the main sequence evolves, it envelops the white dwarf in it's expanding envelope, causing a friction dynamic to slow the white dwarf, while increasing it's mass. This leads for them to get closer and by the time the planetary nebula is ejected. In the end(if a type Ia Supernova doesn't occur) a close binary is left over. Like how Henize 2-428 probably was.

Very interesting.
 
In the case of close binary stars, we have learned orbital decay can be driven via emission of gravitational radiation. In the Hulse-Taylor study they were able to accurately acount for the decrease in orbital period of the system PSR B1913+16 over time via this mechanism. This does not, however, explain how the stars get close enough in the first place for gravitational radiation to become a driver for orbital decay. The principal mechanism for orbital decay of binary systems besides gravitational radiation is magnetized stellar winds which bleeds the system of angular momentum and energy causing the orbital period to slowly decline.
 

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