How do dual vectors and tangent bases relate in coordinate functions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between dual vectors and tangent bases in the context of coordinate functions. Participants explore the mathematical expressions involving gradients, tangent vectors, and the implications of different coordinate systems, particularly focusing on the conditions under which certain equations hold true.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the equation dxμ∂ν = ∂xμ/∂xν = δμν and questions whether the operation of absorbing d into ∂ is valid.
  • Another participant argues that the equations only hold in orthonormal coordinate systems and suggests that the general result involves the metric tensor g(∂μ, ∂ν) = gμν, indicating that the proof depends on the definitions used for ∂ν and dxμ.
  • A different participant discusses the definition of the differential df and its relation to tangent vectors, providing a detailed derivation that leads to the conclusion that dxν(∂ν) = δνμ, asserting that this result is general and independent of the metric.
  • One participant emphasizes that the result involving the metric is more of a definition rather than a derived result, contrasting it with the generality of the earlier expression.
  • Another participant suggests that considering the Euclidean case can provide clarity, illustrating the relationship between different bases and their non-orthonormal nature in curvilinear coordinates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions under which the equations hold, particularly regarding the necessity of orthonormal coordinate systems. There is no consensus on the validity of certain operations or the definitions involved, indicating ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence of results on definitions and the nature of the coordinate systems used. Some participants note that the proofs and interpretations may vary significantly based on these factors.

nigelscott
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I am trying to figure how one arrives at the following:

dxμν = ∂xμ/∂xν = δμν

Where,

dxμ is the gradient of the coordinate functions = basis of cotangent space

ν = basis of tangent space

I know that dual vectors 'eat' vectors to produce scalars. Is this demonstrated by absorbing d into ∂ so that dxμ ≡ ∂νxμ or is such an operation illegal?
 
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I think those equations only hold if the coordinate system is orthonormal. The more general result would be that those expressions are equal to
$$\mathbf g(\partial_\mu,\partial_\nu)=g_{\mu\nu}$$
As regards proving the result, it depends on where one starts, in particular, how one defines ##\partial_\nu## and dxμ. Several different approaches are possible. The nature of the proof would depend on the nature of the definition. For some definitions, the result may even be part of the definition so that no proof is required.
 
By definition of the differential ##df##, it holds that
$$
df(\dot\gamma) = \frac{df}{ds}
$$
where ##\dot\gamma## is the tangent vector of a curve ##\gamma## parametrised by ##s##. In a coordinate system representation, this expression can be rewritten
$$
df(\dot x^\mu \partial_\mu) = \dot x^\mu df(\partial_\mu) = \frac{df}{ds} = \frac{\partial f}{\partial x^\mu} \frac{dx^\mu}{ds}
$$
using the linear property of a dual vector and the chain rule, respectively. This is satisfied for all tangent vectors if and only if
$$
df(\partial_\mu) = \frac{\partial f}{\partial x^\mu}.
$$
If you let ##f## be your coordinate function ##x^\nu##, you now obtain
$$
dx^\nu(\partial_\nu) = \frac{\partial x^\nu}{\partial x^\mu} = \delta^\nu_\mu.
$$

andrewkirk said:
I think those equations only hold if the coordinate system is orthonormal.
No, the result is completely general and an effect of how the differential is defined. I would not call ##g(\partial_\mu,\partial_\nu) = g_{\mu\nu}## a result as much as the definition of the components ##g_{\mu\nu}##. In contrast, the result above is general and does not even require a metric to be well defined (the natural product is between tangent vector and dual vectors, the metric is necessary only to define a product between vectors of the same type).

I find that it sometimes helps to go back to the Euclidean case. In the Euclidean case you can define two bases ##\vec E^\mu = \partial \vec x/\partial x^\mu## and ##\vec E_\mu = \nabla x^\mu##, respectively. These are the equivalents of ##\partial_\mu## and ##dx^\mu##, respectively (heuristically, essentially just remove the position vector). Each of these sets of vectors will generally not be orthonormal among themselves (in curvilinear coordinates), however it will still hold that
$$
\vec E^\nu\cdot \vec E_\mu = \frac{\partial x^\nu}{\partial y^i} \vec e_i \cdot \vec e_j \frac{\partial y^j}{\partial x^\mu} = \frac{\partial x^\nu}{\partial y^i} \frac{\partial y^i}{\partial x^\mu} = \frac{\partial x^\nu}{\partial x^\mu} = \delta^\nu_\mu,
$$
where ##\vec E^\nu## and ##\vec E_\mu## have been written down in component form in a Cartesian coordinate system ##y^i##.
 
Thank you. Now I understand.
 
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