How do I find the value of delta in a delta epsilon proof using a graph?

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    Delta Epsilon Proof
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the value of delta in a delta-epsilon proof using a graph, specifically for the function \( f(x) = \frac{2x}{x^2+4} \) and the condition \( |f(x) - 0.4| < 0.1 \). Participants explore the graphical representation and the implications of transformations and boundaries related to the proof.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks guidance on how to find delta for the given condition and mentions difficulty with similar problems.
  • Another participant provides a graphical representation of the function \( \frac{2x}{x^2+4} \) to aid in understanding the problem.
  • Some participants discuss the relevance of the transformations and absolute values in the context of the proof, with one asserting that they are critical.
  • It is noted that for \( |f(x) - 0.4| < 0.1 \), the function must satisfy \( 0.3 < f(x) < 0.5 \), and the corresponding horizontal lines are drawn on the graph.
  • Participants identify the need to find the minimum and maximum \( x \) values around \( x=1 \) that keep the function between the horizontal lines, suggesting that if \( 0.7 < x < 2 \), the function remains within those bounds.
  • There is a repeated emphasis on finding delta such that \( |x-1| < \delta \) leads to the condition \( 0.7 < x < 2 \).
  • A participant expresses a desire to improve their understanding of delta-epsilon proofs through practice.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance of transformations and absolute values in the proof. While some assert their importance, others seem to question this stance, indicating a lack of consensus on this aspect.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve the specific value of delta, and the assumptions regarding the boundaries and transformations remain open to interpretation.

karush
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Find a graph to a number $\delta$ such that
$$\textit{if }
|x-1|<\delta
\textit{ then }
\left|\dfrac{2x}{x^2+4}-0.4\right|<0.1
$$

ok I always had a very hard time doing these I did look at some examples but still ?
did a ibispaint drawing to start basically it looks like we are finding the dimenstions of box given the parameters

Untitled3_20200822115833.png
 
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Let's draw the function $\frac{2x}{x^2+4}$.

\begin{tikzpicture}[scale=5]
\draw[help lines] (0,0) grid[step=0.1] (2,0.5);
\draw[-latex] (-0.2,0) -- (2.1,0);
\draw[-latex] (0,-0.1) -- (0,0.6);
\draw foreach \i in {0.7,1,2} { (\i,0.5) -- (\i,0) node[ below ] {$\i$} };
\draw foreach \i in {0.3,0.4,0.5} { (2,\i) -- (0,\i) node[ left ] {$\i$} };
\draw[domain=-0.2:2.1, variable=\x, blue, ultra thick] plot ({\x}, {2*(\x)/((\x)^2+4)}) node[ right ] {$\frac{2x}{x^2+4}$};
\end{tikzpicture}
 
So you are saying the transformations of $- 0.4$ and the ABS are not critical for the proof

I think I see how the rest of the calculations would go
 
karush said:
So you are saying the transformations of $- 0.4$ and the ABS are not critical for the proof

I think I see how the rest of the calculations would go

They are relevant.
Let $f(x)=\frac{2x}{x^2+4}$.
Then we have $|f(x)-0.4|<0.1$ and $f(1)=0.4$.
It follows that we must have $0.3 < f(x) < 0.5$, and I've drawn the corresponding horizontal lines at $y=0.3$ and $y=0.5$ in the picture.
Now we need to find a minimum and maximum $x$ around $x=1$ such that the function is between those horizontal lines.
In the picture we can see that if $0.7 < x < 2$ that the function will indeed be between those lines.

That leaves finding $\delta$ such that if $|x-1|<\delta$ that we will have $0.7 < x < 2$.
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
They are relevant.
Let $f(x)=\frac{2x}{x^2+4}$.
Klaas van Aarsen said:
They are relevant.
Let $f(x)=\frac{2x}{x^2+4}$.
Then we have $|f(x)-0.4|<0.1$ and $f(1)=0.4$.
It follows that we must have $0.3 < f(x) < 0.5$, and I've drawn the corresponding horizontal lines at $y=0.3$ and $y=0.5$ in the picture.
Now we need to find a minimum and maximum $x$ around $x=1$ such that the function is between those horizontal lines.
In the picture we can see that if $0.7 < x < 2$ that the function will indeed be between those lines.

That leaves finding $\delta$ such that if $|x-1|<\delta$ that we will have $0.7 < x < 2$.

Then we have $|f(x)-0.4|<0.1$ and $f(1)=0.4$.
It follows that we must have $0.3 < f(x) < 0.5$, and I've drawn the corresponding horizontal lines at $y=0.3$ and $y=0.5$ in the picture.
Now we need to find a minimum and maximum $x$ around $x=1$ such that the function is between those horizontal lines.
In the picture we can see that if $0.7 < x < 2$ that the function will indeed be between those lines.

That leaves finding $\delta$ such that if $|x-1|<\delta$ that we will have $0.7 < x < 2$.

Mahalo Much
I'm need to do a lot more of these to really have it down cold

I tried to make the boundary lines dashed and just up the the graph but that must be separate from the for each call?
 

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