How do vortices help astronomical structures to form?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the role of vortices in the formation of astronomical structures, particularly in the context of gravitational condensation and fluid dynamics in astrophysical environments. Participants examine how these rotating structures may influence the development of galaxies and other celestial bodies.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes how vortices in cold mist can illustrate fluid shear and its relation to vortex formation, drawing parallels to gravitational condensation in astrophysics.
  • Another participant suggests that dark matter may play a role in galaxy formation, referencing a "spider web effect," but acknowledges a preference for discussions focused on shear and vorticity.
  • A different participant mentions that numerical simulations of vortices are gaining interest in the astrophysical community, highlighting their potential roles in angular momentum transport and planetesimal formation in protoplanetary discs.
  • There is speculation about the broader implications of vortex dynamics for galaxy formation, with a comparison made between spiral galaxies and whirlpools.
  • Some participants express frustration with the sources provided, indicating a desire for more relevant literature on shear and vorticity in structure formation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach consensus on the specific role of vortices in structure formation, and there are competing views regarding the importance of dark matter versus fluid dynamics in this context.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions may depend on specific definitions of terms like "vortex" and "shear," and there are unresolved questions regarding the mathematical modeling of these phenomena in astrophysical contexts.

oldman
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I often watch tongues of cold mist spreading over a high plain ahead of an approaching cold front. Their upper surfaces are characteristically corrugated by whorls of mist rotating about a horizontal axis, which form and dissolve as a slab of cold air slides under the warmer upper air. Meshed with corresponding tranparent whorls that (presumably also) form on the lower surface of the upper warm air, I conclude that these rotating structures act as rollers that facilitate the localised shearing of the upper air mass relative to the intruding lower mass. The generation of such horizontal-axed structures shows clearly how easily fluid shear promotes vortex formation.

And in astrophysics, gravitational condensation promotes fluid shear:

The genesis of astronomical objects (for example the outer solar system of planets, moons etc.) is thought to initially involve the gravitational condensation of a rotating fluid mass. Non-interacting particles of the fluid follow Keplerian orbits and such a fluid mass is therefore sheared if it rotates. For example in the case of circular particle orbits in the rotating solar disc the tangential orbital speed varies inversely as the square root of orbit radius, rather than as the radius -- as it would in a non-sheared rigid disc.

One should therefore expect vortices in any rotating, condensing fluid. Indeed vortices in the solar system were proposed as long ago as 1643, by Descartes. And the way vortices can enable gravitational condensation in the solar system has been discussed quite recently by Chavanis.

What is the role of ...compactifying gravity, that leads to localised rotation, that leads to shearing in fluids, that leads to vortices... that are localised rotating fluid masses... that aid compactifying gravity... and so on in a astrophysical and cyclic way?

My head spins whenever I see mist rolling in and then turn to thinking of how the astronomical universe came to be so heterogeneous ? Does anyone know of a good web-accessible review article that can explain the spinning, as it were?
 
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Last edited:
Naty1 said:
You might find this interesting...
...If dark matter is not mentioned, look for it as a spider web effect is suspected that aids galaxy formation...don't recall where I read about it...

I'm actually looking for a review article about the role of shear and vorticity in structure formation, rather than about dark matter. But thanks all the same, Naty1.

Numerical simulations of difficult vortex stuff seems to be of growing interest in the astrophysical community. For instance Lesur and Papaloizounote that:
... vortices may play
at least two important roles regarding accretion disc dynamics. First, they could lead to an efficient angular momentum transport process ...Second, they are a very efficient way to accelerate the planetesimal formation process in protoplanetary discs...
.

I can't help wondering if the importance of votices doesn't extend also to processes on a much larger scale, say to galaxy formation. Gravitationally induced fluid shear and vortex formation seem to me a potent recipe for localised structure formation. And spiral galaxies look so like whirlpools! --- even if their proximate cause is outwardly propagating waves of star formation.
 
Naty1 said:
Duh...

??

Not the kind of sources I was hoping for, but thanks again.
 

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