How do we formalize the following:For all natural Nos :

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the formalization of the statement "For all natural numbers, if n² is even, then n is even." Participants explore various formal representations and proofs of this implication, addressing both the logical structure and the definitions involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose formal representations using logical quantifiers and set notation, suggesting different forms to express the statement.
  • One participant emphasizes the ambiguity of the symbol \mathbb{N} and suggests clarifying whether it refers to positive integers or non-negative integers.
  • Another participant presents a structured proof involving existential quantifiers and logical implications, detailing steps to show that if n² is even, then n must also be even.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of changing variables within existential quantifiers without proper justification, with one participant questioning the clarity of such manipulations.
  • There is a discussion about whether a formalized proof must also be considered a formal proof, with inquiries into the necessity of explicitly stating logical laws and theorems used in the proof process.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the proof's structure and suggests that a formal proof should clarify the assumptions regarding the nature of natural numbers being either odd or even.
  • Another participant expresses curiosity about the topic and suggests that it would be beneficial to specify the rules of inference used in the proof.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best formalization or proof method. There are competing views on the clarity and validity of variable substitution in proofs, as well as differing opinions on the necessity of explicitly stating logical laws in formal proofs.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the ambiguity surrounding the definition of natural numbers and the assumptions made regarding odd and even classifications. The discussion also highlights unresolved questions about the nature of formalized versus formal proofs.

solakis
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How do we formalize the following:

For all natural Nos : [itex]n^2[/itex] is even[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex] n is even
 
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Here's one way:

[tex](\forall n \in \mathbb{N})[((\exists p \in \mathbb{N})[n^2=2p])\Rightarrow((\exists q\in \mathbb{N})[n=2q])].[/tex]

Here's another:

[tex]\left \{ n \in \mathbb{N} \; | \; (\exists p \in \mathbb{N})[n^2 = 2p] \right \} \subseteq \left \{ n \in \mathbb{N} \; | \; (\exists q \in \mathbb{N})[n=2q] \right \}.[/tex]

The symbol [itex]\mathbb{N}[/itex], like the name "the natural numbers", is ambiguous, so you might want to specify whether you mean the positive integers, [itex]\mathbb{N}_1=\mathbb{Z}_+ = \left \{ 1,2,3,... \right \}[/itex], or the non-negative integers, [itex]\mathbb{N}_0 =\mathbb{Z}_+ \cup \left \{ 0 \right \}=0,1,2,3,...[/itex].
 


Rasalhague said:
Here's one way:

[tex](\forall n \in \mathbb{N})[((\exists p \in \mathbb{N})[n^2=2p])\Rightarrow((\exists q\in \mathbb{N})[n=2q])].[/tex]

Here's another:

[tex]\left \{ n \in \mathbb{N} \; | \; (\exists p \in \mathbb{N})[n^2 = 2p] \right \} \subseteq \left \{ n \in \mathbb{N} \; | \; (\exists q \in \mathbb{N})[n=2q] \right \}.[/tex]

The symbol [itex]\mathbb{N}[/itex], like the name "the natural numbers", is ambiguous, so you might want to specify whether you mean the positive integers, [itex]\mathbb{N}_1=\mathbb{Z}_+ = \left \{ 1,2,3,... \right \}[/itex], or the non-negative integers, [itex]\mathbb{N}_0 =\mathbb{Z}_+ \cup \left \{ 0 \right \}=0,1,2,3,...[/itex].


Thank you ,i think the first formula is the more suitable to use in formalized mathematics.

The question now is how do we prove this formula in formalized mathematics
 


[tex]1. \enspace (\exists p \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n^2 = 2p][/tex]

[tex]\Rightarrow ((\exists a \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n=2a]) \vee ((\exists b \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n=2b+1]).[/tex]

[tex]2. \enspace (\exists b \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n=2b+1])[/tex]

[tex]\Rightarrow (\exists q \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n^2=(2b+1)^2=4b^2+4b+1=2q+1][/tex]

[tex]\Rightarrow \neg (\exists p \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n^2 = 2p].[/tex]

[tex]3. \enspace\therefore ((\exists p \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n^2 = 2p]) \Rightarrow (\exists a \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n=2a] \enspace\enspace \blacksquare[/tex]

Or, to see the argument clearer, let [itex]A = (\exists a \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n=2a][/itex] and let [itex]B = (\exists b \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n=2b+1],[/itex] and suppose [itex](\exists p \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n^2 = 2p][/itex]. Then [itex]A \vee B.[/itex] But [itex]\neg B.[/itex] So [itex]A.[/itex]
 


Rasalhague said:
[tex]1. \enspace (\exists p \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n^2 = 2p][/tex]

[tex]\Rightarrow ((\exists a \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n=2a]) \vee ((\exists b \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n=2b+1]).[/tex]

[tex]2. \enspace (\exists b \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n=2b+1])[/tex]

[tex]\Rightarrow (\exists q \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n^2=(2b+1)^2=4b^2+4b+1=2q+1][/tex]

[tex]\Rightarrow \neg (\exists p \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n^2 = 2p].[/tex]

[tex]3. \enspace\therefore ((\exists p \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n^2 = 2p]) \Rightarrow (\exists a \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n=2a] \enspace\enspace \blacksquare[/tex]

Or, to see the argument clearer, let [itex]A = (\exists a \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n=2a][/itex] and let [itex]B = (\exists b \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n=2b+1],[/itex] and suppose [itex](\exists p \in \mathbb{N}_0)[n^2 = 2p][/itex]. Then [itex]A \vee B.[/itex] But [itex]\neg B.[/itex] So [itex]A.[/itex]

I think to change the variables inside the existential quantifier without dropping it first it is not allowed by logic.

Also it becomes confusing and impossible to follow.

I also wander is necessarily a formalized proof also a formal one??

Or to put in a better way is it possible to have a proof like the one above ,where one uses only formulas , without mentioning the laws of logic and the theorems upon which these laws act to give us the formalized conclusions of the above proof??
 


Simple answer: I don't know. I'm curious. I hope someone better informed can give say more about this. Seems like it would at least be a good idea to make explicit which statements and which rules of inference are used in each line; so, we could append to the final line: / 1,2,DS. (Disjunctive syllogism.) I could be mistaken but here is what looks like an example of someone using formal and formalized as synonyms: http://arxiv.org/abs/math/0410224

A problem with my proof as it stands: a full, formal proof would have to justify the assumption that natural numbers are odd or even but not both.

I don't see what the problem is with substitution. Maybe you could elaborate?
 

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