How do we know if something is vector or scalar quantity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the classification of quantities as either vector or scalar, exploring the relationships and properties that define these classifications. Participants examine definitions, mathematical operations, and intuitive understandings related to various physical quantities.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion over textbook statements linking vector quantities to other quantities, questioning the necessary relationships between arbitrary quantities X and Y.
  • Another participant outlines mathematical operations involving vectors and scalars, noting that a vector times a scalar yields a vector, while the divergence of a vector results in a scalar.
  • A participant suggests that the essential nature of a quantity can often be determined by whether direction is significant, using momentum and kinetic energy as examples to illustrate scalar and vector distinctions.
  • There is a reiteration of the idea that kinetic energy is scalar because it is derived from mass (a scalar) and the square of velocity (which is always positive), thus yielding a scalar result.
  • One participant questions the reliance on intuition for determining the nature of quantities, seeking a more systematic approach to classification.
  • A later reply emphasizes that there is no general rule that dictates the relationship between arbitrary quantities X and Y regarding their vector or scalar nature, noting the importance of direction and the parallelogram law in defining vector quantities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to classify quantities as vector or scalar, with no consensus reached on a general rule for arbitrary quantities. The discussion includes both intuitive and mathematical perspectives, highlighting the complexity of the topic.

Contextual Notes

The discussion acknowledges the nuanced nature of defining scalar and vector quantities, including the potential for scalars to be viewed as 1-dimensional vectors. The implications of mathematical operations and the significance of direction are also noted as factors in classification.

Faiq
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I am well-versed with the definition of scalar and vector quantities.The confusion I mainly have is at many points, my textbook makes ambiguous statements like "Because force is vector quantity it follows that field strength is also a vector quantity."
What relationship should arbitrary quantities X and Y hold, so if X is a vector quantity Y will also be a vector quantity?
 
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This is just from the math. A vector times a scalar is another vector. The divergence of a vector is a scalar. The gradient of a scalar is a vector. The dot product of two vectors is a scalar. The cross product of two vectors is a vector (pseudo vector technically). Etc.
 
Simply ask yourself if direction is an essential part of the quantity. Sometimes, we use both such as speed (scalar) and velocity (vector) referring to the same thing. It depends on whether the direction is important to you.

Sometimes, we can see it in the signed/unsigned properties.

For example momentum ##mv## is signed + or -, and thus a vector. When two cars collide, it makes a very big difference whether they were traveling in the same direction, or opposite directions.

Kinetic energy ##\frac{mv^2}{2}## is unsigned because ##v^2## is always positive. Thus, K.E. is a scalar. It takes the same fuel energy to accelerate a car to 60 mph eastward as it does to accelerate to 60 mph westward.
 
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Oh so can I say Kinetic energy is scalar because mass(scalar) x v^2 (dot product of vector = scalar ) = KE (scalar) in mathematical terms?
 
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anorlunda said:
Simply ask yourself if direction is an essential part of the quantity. Sometimes, we use both such as speed (scalar) and velocity (vector) referring to the same thing. It depends on whether the direction is important to you.

Sometimes, we can see it in the signed/unsigned properties.

For example momentum ##mv## is signed + or -, and thus a vector. When two cars collide, it makes a very big difference whether they were traveling in the same direction, or opposite directions.

Kinetic energy ##\frac{mv^2}{2}## is unsigned because ##v^2## is always positive. Thus, K.E. is a scalar. It takes the same fuel energy to accelerate a car to 60 mph eastward as it does to accelerate to 60 mph westward.
Yeah, but we kind of have some intution in this example to determine the nature of the quantity. I was concerned about what if we couldn't use intution to help us arrive at a decent conclusion
 
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Faiq said:
Oh so can I say Kinetic energy is scalar because mass(scalar) x v^2 (dot product of vector = scalar ) = KE (scalar) in mathematical terms?
Yes, exactly
 
Faiq said:
What relationship should arbitrary quantities X and Y hold, so if X is a vector quantity Y will also be a vector quantity?

There is no general relationship that makes that implication true for arbitrary quantities.

As others have suggested, one hint about whether Y is a vector quantity is whether it has "direction" as well as "magnitude". However, this is not sufficient. A vector quantity must obey the parallelogram law. Whether Y obeys the parallelogram law depends on how the operation of addition and the operation of scalar multiplication are defined for things of type Y.

The distinction between "scalar" and "vector" is complicated by the fact that one may view scalars as 1-dimensional vectors.
 

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