How do we know that the universe expands?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the reasons and evidence supporting the expansion of the universe, exploring the role of redshift and other observational data. It encompasses theoretical and observational aspects of cosmology.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether redshift is the only reason for believing in the universe's expansion and suggest it could indicate other phenomena.
  • Others assert that redshift is not merely a reason but a consequence of the universe's expansion, prompting further inquiry into its implications.
  • A participant lists multiple lines of evidence supporting the expansion of the universe, including cosmic microwave background radiation, galaxy evolution, elemental abundances, and gravitational lensing, among others.
  • There is mention of historical context, noting that earlier models like the steady state theory were reasonable before the accumulation of substantial evidence against them.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of redshift in the context of cosmic expansion, with some emphasizing its role as evidence while others question its exclusivity. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the completeness of the evidence supporting the expansion of the universe.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of interpreting redshift and its implications, as well as the evolving nature of cosmological models based on new evidence. Limitations in the understanding of alternative theories and the dependence on observational data are acknowledged.

kasse
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Is redshift the only reason? And why cannot redshift indicate whatever else than speed?
 
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Redshift isn't a reason why the universe expands; the fact that light is redshifted simply tells us that the universe is expanding.

What else do you suppose it can indicate?
 
Maybe a bad formulation. I try again: Is redshift the only reason that we believe that the universe is expanding?
 
In the 1930's yes this would be true. But we have many pieces of evidence today. These include:
* The temperature and anisotropy angular power spectrum of the cosmic microwave background
* The observation of galaxy evolution with redshift
* The observation of elemental abundances that agrees with Big Bang Nucleosynthesis
* The Lyman alpha forest (in Quasar spectra) evolution with redshift and the Gunn-Peterson test
* Time delays in gravitational lens systems (which give us a measure of the Hubble constant as a funciton of redshift)
* Observation of the Baryon Acoustic Oscillation peak seen in galaxy redshift surveys (evidence of the hot origin of the early universe)
* The observation of the evolution of structure in the Universe with redshift
* Agreement between the amplitude of structure in the CMB and the Universe today (When evolved forward with simple theory)

There are many more but that should keep you busy. It is not on a whim that the ideas of modern cosmology have been developed, they have been developed precisely because of the overwhelming evidence. Alternative ideas were reasonable when there was less evidence, for instance Fred Hoyle's steady state model, however new evidence ruled these out leaving the current model as the main contender at present, but that could all change with new evidence.
 

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