Standard candles in a stretching fabric of space

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of standard candles in the context of the accelerating expansion of the universe and the implications of redshift. Participants explore how the expansion of space affects the measurement of distances and redshift, particularly in relation to light-emitting objects moving away from observers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the redshift observed in light from distant objects is not solely due to their recession velocity but also due to the light traveling through an expanding fabric of space, akin to a stretching rubber band.
  • Others argue that the accumulated Doppler redshift along the path of light is what matters, suggesting that the expansion history of the universe is significant, rather than just the state of the object at the time of emission.
  • A participant notes that the apparent acceleration of distant objects does not necessarily follow from the expansion being accelerating or not, indicating a need for careful consideration of the underlying physics.
  • One participant highlights the challenge astronomers face in distinguishing between "peculiar" motions of standard candles and their cosmological motions, which introduces uncertainty in distance calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of redshift and the factors contributing to it. There is no consensus on how these factors are accounted for in measurements and formulas related to standard candles.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of separating peculiar motions from cosmological ones, which adds uncertainty to distance measurements. The discussion reflects ongoing challenges in cosmology without resolving the specific mathematical or conceptual issues raised.

Rebbyte
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I'm just trying to figure somethings out concerning the accelerating expansion of the universe and the measured redshift, etc.

If a light emitting object moves away from us, because of the expansion of the universe, the speed of that object causes a redshift in this light. But this light, from the time it is emitted to the time it is received, also travels through an expanding fabric of space. Like if it travels through a stretching rubber band. This will also cause a extra redshift. So long distance objects will appear to be accelerating away.
Since the expansion of the universe stretches the rubber band, the traveled path will also be longer than only causing by the movement of that object.
How is this been accounted for in the measurements and formulas for the use of standard candles?
 
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Rebbyte said:
If a light emitting object moves away from us, because of the expansion of the universe, the speed of that object causes a redshift in this light. But this light, from the time it is emitted to the time it is received, also travels through an expanding fabric of space. Like if it travels through a stretching rubber band. This will also cause a extra redshift.
This is the same thing. Specifically, the recession velocity of the observed object at emission alone does not cause its redshift. It's the accumulated Doppler redshift between infinitesimal point to point distances along the path of light that we observe. So that the expansion history matters, not just the state at emission.

Rebbyte said:
So long distance objects will appear to be accelerating away.
This does not follow. The exact same thing happens regardless of whether the expansion is accelerating or not.

Rebbyte said:
How is this been accounted for in the measurements and formulas for the use of standard candles?
This is not straightforward. Take a look at this Wiki page (and the sub-pages for various distances):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distance_measures_(cosmology)
 
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Rebbyte said:
Since the expansion of the universe stretches ...the traveled path will also be longer than that only caused by the movement of that object.
That's a very astute observation! In fact it's a big problem for astronomers to be able to separate the what's called "peculiar" motions of the standard candles from their cosmological ones due to the expansion of the universe. These peculiar motions include the motions of their host galaxies due to the gravitational attraction of the clusters they're in, and their rotational motions within their host galaxies. These motions cause a statistical scatter that introduces uncertainty in the calculation of their distances, and is a bane to researchers!
 
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