How Do You Convert Expressions into Bilinear Form?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around converting a specific expression into bilinear form and determining the rank of a bilinear function. Participants explore the implications of different representations and the associated matrix forms, focusing on theoretical aspects of tensor products and linear algebra.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion regarding the conversion of the given expression into bilinear form and seek clarification on the process.
  • There is a suggestion that a potential typo exists in the original problem, which could affect the interpretation of the bilinear function's domain.
  • One participant proposes that the rank of the bilinear function can be determined if the expression is correctly formatted, leading to a rank of 8 based on their interpretation.
  • Another participant argues that the rank should be interpreted as the rank of the associated matrix, providing a specific matrix representation and claiming it has a rank of 2.
  • Further discussion highlights that the change in notation (superscripts vs. subscripts) does not affect the rank or matrix representation of the bilinear function.
  • There is a question regarding the equivalence of matrix representations for different forms of tensor products, with participants seeking confirmation on their understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach a consensus on the correct interpretation of the rank or the implications of the notation changes. Multiple competing views remain regarding the conversion process and the resulting rank of the bilinear function.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the interpretation of "rank" may vary based on context, and there is uncertainty about the implications of the original expression's formatting on its mathematical properties.

Sudharaka
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Hi everyone, :)

I don't quite get what this question means. How do we convert the expression into the bilinear form first? Hope you people can give me some insight. :)

Question:

Find the rank of the bilinear function \((e^1+e^3)\otimes (e^2+e^4) - (e^2-e^4)\otimes (e_1-e_3)\).
 
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Sudharaka said:
Hi everyone, :)

I don't quite get what this question means. How do we convert the expression into the bilinear form first? Hope you people can give me some insight. :)

Question:

Find the rank of the bilinear function \((e^1+e^3)\otimes (e^2+e^4) - (e^2-e^4)\otimes (e_1-e_3)\).

If we simplify the tensor product expression we get has,

\((e^1\otimes e^2)+(e^1\otimes e^4)+(e^3\otimes e^2)+(e^3\otimes e^4)\)

as the fist four terms. It's these four terms that I have trouble. I know that if we have all the terms as \(e^i\otimes e_j\) then we can easily find out the rank of the bilinear function. But with terms of the form \(e^i\otimes e^j\) I don't understand how we can get the rank.

Thinking further about this question I have the feeling that there maybe a typo. The rank of the bilinear function can be found out if it's given as \((e^1+e^3)\otimes (e_\color{red}{2}+e_\color{red}{4}) - (e^2-e^4)\otimes (e_1-e_3)\).
 
Sudharaka said:
I have the feeling that there maybe a typo. The rank of the bilinear function can be found out if it's given as \((e^1+e^3)\otimes (e_\color{red}{2}+e_\color{red}{4}) - (e^2-e^4)\otimes (e_1-e_3)\).
That seems the likeliest explanation to me. If the function is $(e^1+e^3)\otimes (e^{2}+e^{4}) - (e^2-e^4)\otimes (e_1-e_3)$ then it is not clear what its domain could be, since the two terms are operating on different spaces.
 
Opalg said:
That seems the likeliest explanation to me. If the function is $(e^1+e^3)\otimes (e^{2}+e^{4}) - (e^2-e^4)\otimes (e_1-e_3)$ then it is not clear what its domain could be, since the two terms are operating on different spaces.

Thanks so much for the confirmation. I changed the problem and I get the answer as \(8\). Am I correct? :)
 
Sudharaka said:
I changed the problem and I get the answer as \(8\). Am I correct? :)
As in a previous question, that depends on what is meant by "rank" here. I would take it to mean the rank of the associated matrix. I would associate each basic tensor of the form $e^i\otimes e_j$ with the $4\times4$ matrix having a $1$ in the $(i,j)$-position and zeros elsewhere. Then the bilinear form $(e^1+e^3)\otimes (e_{2}+e_{4}) - (e^2-e^4)\otimes (e_1-e_3)$ corresponds to the matrix $\begin{bmatrix}0&1&0&1 \\ -1&0&1&0 \\ 0&1&0&1 \\ 1&0&-1&0\end{bmatrix}$, which has rank $2.$
 
Opalg said:
As in a previous question, that depends on what is meant by "rank" here. I would take it to mean the rank of the associated matrix. I would associate each basic tensor of the form $e^i\otimes e_j$ with the $4\times4$ matrix having a $1$ in the $(i,j)$-position and zeros elsewhere. Then the bilinear form $(e^1+e^3)\otimes (e_{2}+e_{4}) - (e^2-e^4)\otimes (e_1-e_3)$ corresponds to the matrix $\begin{bmatrix}0&1&0&1 \\ -1&0&1&0 \\ 0&1&0&1 \\ 1&0&-1&0\end{bmatrix}$, which has rank $2.$

I think what you meant by rank is what is meant to find in the question. Of course we used the word rank to mean different things in our linear algebra course, but in this case I think your answer makes more sense and I guess rank refers to the matrix rank. Thanks so much for helping me out. :)
 
Hi again, :)

Our professor changed the question so as all the indices were taken as superscripts. So the the question is,

Question:

Find the rank of the bilinear function \[(e^1+e^3)\otimes (e^2+e^4) - (e^2-e^4)\otimes (e^1-e^3)\]

Now can you give me any idea as to how this can me converted into it's matrix form. :)
 
Sudharaka said:
Hi again, :)

Our professor changed the question so as all the indices were taken as superscripts. So the the question is,

Question:

Find the rank of the bilinear function \[(e^1+e^3)\otimes (e^2+e^4) - (e^2-e^4)\otimes (e^1-e^3)\]

Now can you give me any idea as to how this can me converted into it's matrix form. :)
It should make no difference. This time, the matrix represents a map from $V^*\otimes V^*$ to itself rather than a map from $V^*\otimes V^*$ to $V\otimes V$. But the matrix entries, and therefore the rank, are the same as before.
 
Opalg said:
It should make no difference. This time, the matrix represents a map from $V^*\otimes V^*$ to itself rather than a map from $V^*\otimes V^*$ to $V\otimes V$. But the matrix entries, and therefore the rank, are the same as before.

Thanks very much for the reply. So that means, for example, the matrix representation of \(e^1\otimes e_2\) and the matrix representation of \(e^1\otimes e^2\) is the same, given by,

\begin{pmatrix}0&1&0&0\\0&0&0&0 \\0&0&0&0\\0&0&0&0\end{pmatrix}

Am I correct? Furthermore is this same matrix used to represent \(e_1\otimes e_2\) ?
 

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