How do you deal with a misanthrope father?

[DaveC426913]

This is good advice particularly the bolded part, but it seems there are some people that are always in competition and a conversation is: I am absolutely right and you are absolutely wrong, and these are people you can't reason with.

You can try acknowledging their points and try letting them in, but in the case of the OP, if the person is just wrong more often than not, how do you reason with that person? Or maintain some sort of patience, I must admit I never had to do this with people, because I tend to give up; I don't see a ...

One of things I have learned in discussions is to keep a finger on the pulse of conversation in terms of checking what I think the other person's unconscious needs are.

Often, I ask explicitly: "Time out. Do you want to have a discussion about this or are you just venting your frustration?"

The answer often comes back the latter. At which point, I can stop trying to fix the problem and simply listen.

When in discussion with your father, ask yourself what he wants from this discussion. And what you want.

 

[LightbulbSun]

One of things I have learned in discussions is to keep a finger on the pulse of conversation in terms of checking what I think the other person's unconscious needs are.

Often, I ask explicitly: "Time out. Do you want to have a discussion about this or are you just venting your frustration?"

The answer often comes back the latter. At which point, I can stop trying to fix the problem and simply listen.

When in discussion with your father, ask yourself what he wants from this discussion. And what you want.

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind the next time.

 

[Evo]

I know I love him deep down, but for some reason I feel awkward saying it to him so I never do. He never says it to me either. Another thing that bothers me is he thinks he can buy my love through the means of money. My dad is a really frugal man. He's bigoted towards alternative outlooks on life, yet he thinks he can save himself by throwing money at me and that hurts. I remember him telling me when I was in high school that he was the better parent because he spent X amount of dollars on me while my mother only spent X amount of dollars. Yet my mother has done a whole lot more for me than my father will ever do.

Wow, sounds just like my dad. He was the youngest of ten children when the depression hit and their father vanished leaving his mother to support all eleven of them. He swore at that point that he'd never be poor again and money became everything to him.

Not once in my life did my father ever hug us, or tell us he loved us or spend anytime with us, but we were always the first on the block to have the newest, latest and greatest everything. I never had to ask for anything, I got stuff I never would have even dreamed of asking for. He was a geeky engineer and anytime he read about new technology, we got it.

It wasn't until he died that I finally understood that he showed us how much he loved us by providing us with everything he could. That was love to him, it was something he didn't have growing up.

 

[Smurf]

he was the better parent because he spent X amount of dollars on me while my mother only spent X amount of dollars.

can't help but nitpick; if your father spent X and your mother spent X, that means they both spent the same amount. x=x

Having said that, I think Evo's got a point. You don't need to get too drawn into the idea that love is this touchy-feely thing and you have to talk about it and what not. Part of the traditional role of the father is to provide for his family, and he's obviously doing that to the best of his ability.

 

[mathwonk]

fathers, like other parents, come into the job with no guide book. we basically spend our energy trying to save our kids from the same suffring we had. so iif we were taken advantage of, we try to toughen our kids up.

if we were cheated we may try to make our kids more sceptical. if we missed our chance to go to school, or be some profession, we may push our kids in that direction that we wouold have taken.

the very wise, rare parent, watches to see what the child wants, and encourages that, but often we do n ot learn this soon enough.

i did not like my own father when he was alive and i was teenaged, but later i realized he was sacrificing everything to provide for me, and his example has guided me as a grown man, 50 years after his death.

i try to model my treatment of my family on both his good and bad examples. i think he did his best, and i hope i do as much.

there are lessons to be learned even from undiplomatic fathers.

 

[LightbulbSun]

Having said that, I think Evo's got a point. You don't need to get too drawn into the idea that love is this touchy-feely thing and you have to talk about it and what not. Part of the traditional role of the father is to provide for his family, and he's obviously doing that to the best of his ability.

I don't want it to be touchy-feely. I want him to be more open-minded about not only his viewpoints, but also on how to make a living. Working for the state isn't the only way to do that, yet he keeps forcing it on me. That's not good parenting at all. My goals in life aren't quixotic so it's not like he's trying to make me think more realistically. I think supporting a child's ambitions is good parenting, not forcing down your own philosophy.

 

[Werg22]

What's the big deal? Can't you just ignore him?

 

[KingNothing]

Statistically speaking, once a person is that old, their minds are less and less likely to change.

 

[LightbulbSun]

What's the big deal? Can't you just ignore him?

I do, but we still get together every couple of months or so so it's not complete isolation.

 

[Integral]

Statistically speaking, once a person is that old, their minds are less and less likely to change.

Gimme a break. I have 3 grandkids, and am more than happy to listen to my sons and learn from them. This is not a matter of age it is all personality. His father did not become close minded at 50, he has been that way all his life.

Count your blessings LBS, like Evo, my father passed away when I was 20, and he was 49. I would give anything to be able to argue with him.

 

[Werg22]

I do, but we still get together every couple of months or so so it's not complete isolation.

It can be quite hard to cope with a parent when you don't share a good relationship. I have a bad relationship with both my parents ever since my birth, especially my mom. It's hard to keep the frustration inside but when you take it out it always ends up in something messy.

 

[Astronuc]

We certainly don't choose our parents.

I know I love him deep down, but for some reason I feel awkward saying it to him so I never do. He never says it to me either. Another thing that bothers me is he thinks he can buy my love through the means of money. My dad is a really frugal man. He's bigoted towards alternative outlooks on life, yet he thinks he can save himself by throwing money at me and that hurts.

Find an opportunity to tell him that you love him - one could say "Dad, I know we have our differences, but I wish things were better between us. I love you."

Never miss an opportunity to express affection for those for whom one cares.

I used to get into some heated arguments with my dad when I was a teenager. For me, I was struggling to figure out the world about me - struggling with much contradiction about what had been taught about the world and the reality of the world. Also, both my parents worked, so I was given responsibility for my sister (5 years younger) and youngest brother (8 yrs younger), while my other brother (1 yr younger) got to run off and play. I think inside I resented it (but at 12-14, I didn't understand it) and the anger came out periodically. Unfortunately my youngest brother bore some of that anger.

Later in my junior year, my mom told me that if I wanted to go to university, I'd have to work and earn money to pay for it. So I did - and have been working ever since. I left home at 17, except for a few summers during university to work and save money.

I had hoped to spend time with my youngest brother and get to know him as an adult and reconcile over the years when he was a child and teenager. Unfortunately, he died from leukemia 7 years ago. To date, that has been my greatest loss and hurt.

Not once in my life did my father ever hug us, or tell us he loved us or spend anytime with us, but we were always the first on the block to have the newest, latest and greatest everything.

Ouch.

My father was very different. He is a kind and loving person, which fits with his occupation as minister.

My parents hugged us, and we still hug when we meet. When there was just my parents, brother and me, my dad used to pick up my brother and I, and all 4 of us would hug.

We didn't have a lot of money - ministers aren't paid much. I didn't get a lot of fancy stuff - and that's perhaps why I don't care much for 'stuff'. For me, relationships - friendships, are way more important than material things.

 

[LightbulbSun]

Count your blessings LBS, like Evo, my father passed away when I was 20, and he was 49. I would give anything to be able to argue with him.

I never said I wanted him dead. I just wish me and him would have a better relationship that's all. And that he'd have a better relationship with the world.

 

[KingNothing]

Gimme a break. I have 3 grandkids, and am more than happy to listen to my sons and learn from them.

The longer a person has thought a certain way, the harder it is to change it. I'm not making some ridiculous claim here. It's textbook psychology. This is the way most people are.

 

[devil-fire]

my brother is a big fan of pseudo science. he comes to me and tells me he has pictures of ghosts and other typical superstitious type stuff and hopes I am as enthusiastic about it as he is. when i try to have a rational debate about why "feeling" something is true has nothing to do with its validity, it takes a few hours of cornering until he finally says "yeah...i guess..." and we have the exact same discussion a week later. i don't try to debate with him now, i just view the stuff he brings me much differently now. i just view it as something he is enthusiastic about and which i have no interest in. some people might come to work and try to tell you all the cool stuff that's going on with their favorite sports team and if you are not interested in sports you just say "oh yeah? that's cool i guess... sure...right...of course...yeah...yep...so do you want to go get a drink after work and shoot some pool? ok, 10 it is". when my brother asks my opinion on things i just avoid giving him a confrontational answer like "thats a total crock man, that's wrong for all kinds of reasons", i just say "it sounds like your really into this" or "i think i understand what your saying" or if worse comes to worse just "well i disagree but go on".

you seem to realize that when your talking with your dad on many subjects, there is just simply going to be disagreements without any resolution. you can A) talk about this stuff and get pissed off, B)try to find something else to talk about or C) have vary long periods of awkward silence. if your selection is B or C, just tell your dad "look. i don't talk to you about my hemorrhoids, so i don't want you talking to me about what's a pain in your ass either"

 

[devil-fire]

... And that he'd have a better relationship with the world.

thats a tough one that i don't think anyone here can give you sound, working advise on in the space provided. there are several branches of highly educated professionals that help people have better relationships with the world around them, namely psychologists and other counsellors. if he genuinely believes he is superior to other people regardless of capabilities and this belief is causing problems with important relationships in his life (such as his marriage, or if he has a hard time holding onto a job because of disagreements at work or if he is unintentionally alienating his children) then he might vary well have psychological difficulties he could use professional help with.

 

[Astronuc]

I think everyone has had problems with parents. I'm not sure that I know anyone that didn't have a conflict at one time or another, but certainly some have way too much conflict.

My wife's family didn't have a lot of money either, and her parents argued a lot to the point where she just shut herself in her room. It turns out that her dad was spending the family money on himself. He secretly went out and bought part interest in a small plane, which he enjoyed with his friends. Then he died when my wife was about 20 or 21 from cancer, and left the family with little money.

My wife's maternal grandfather had a mistress, and spent money on her rather than family. The boys in the family ran him out of the house.


I had separate issues with my mom and dad. My mom used to get frustrated with my brother and me. She'd lose her temper once in a while and lash out. About the only time I feared for my life was when I got punished for getting into my father's paints and going next door to paint the church. Mom stripped me down in the bathroom to wash up - and I got a leather strap across the legs and buttocks. After that, things cooled between her and me.

My dad was probably overworked trying to provide for the family (with 4 kids). I started rebelling at an early age, and he and I butted heads occassionally.

As an adult, I can appreciate the stress of being a parent and in fact, just being a person.

Parents now face a world that seems to change faster than it used. Job security has been replaced by job insecurity. When one gets to be middle-aged now - late 40's or early 50's - if one has specialized in a certain field, particularly technology, one might find oneself obsolete.

There is enormous anxiety on middle-aged people, many of whom are wondering if they will reach retirement with enough money, or wondering if they will have a job in 10 years, 5 years, next year, next month, . . . .

 

[BoredNL]

my brother is a big fan of pseudo science. he comes to me and tells me he has pictures of ghosts and other typical superstitious type stuff and hopes I am as enthusiastic about it as he is. when i try to have a rational debate about why "feeling" something is true has nothing to do with its validity, it takes a few hours of cornering until he finally says "yeah...i guess..." and we have the exact same discussion a week later. i don't try to debate with him now, i just view the stuff he brings me much differently now. i just view it as something he is enthusiastic about and which i have no interest in. some people might come to work and try to tell you all the cool stuff that's going on with their favorite sports team and if you are not interested in sports you just say "oh yeah? that's cool i guess... sure...right...of course...yeah...yep...so do you want to go get a drink after work and shoot some pool? ok, 10 it is". when my brother asks my opinion on things i just avoid giving him a confrontational answer like "thats a total crock man, that's wrong for all kinds of reasons", i just say "it sounds like your really into this" or "i think i understand what your saying" or if worse comes to worse just "well i disagree but go on".

you seem to realize that when your talking with your dad on many subjects, there is just simply going to be disagreements without any resolution. you can A) talk about this stuff and get pissed off, B)try to find something else to talk about or C) have vary long periods of awkward silence. if your selection is B or C, just tell your dad "look. i don't talk to you about my hemorrhoids, so i don't want you talking to me about what's a pain in your ass either"

lol, nice. That was an interesting insight.

However, I don't think everyone is exactly like your brother. The difference is that maybe your brother isn't being arrogant, he's searching for something to make life seem exciting. I think if you fill that gap with something else (maybe fantasy fiction books), you'd have a much greater chance. Diverting his attention from one thing to another might work better with him. I think arrogance has a greater propensity for change though (albeit, not by much), which is what I think the problem is here.

 

[LightbulbSun]

thats a tough one that i don't think anyone here can give you sound, working advise on in the space provided. there are several branches of highly educated professionals that help people have better relationships with the world around them, namely psychologists and other counsellors. if he genuinely believes he is superior to other people regardless of capabilities and this belief is causing problems with important relationships in his life (such as his marriage, or if he has a hard time holding onto a job because of disagreements at work or if he is unintentionally alienating his children) then he might vary well have psychological difficulties he could use professional help with.

He's just misanthrope period. I don't know what other word to use to describe him. I mean, after what he said about global warming, that was just the breaking point of "I give up! There's no point talking to him about anything."

 

[mathwonk]

perhaps unsurprisingly, you do not seem to have learned anything from all the very perosnal and frank posts here from people with more experience. you are still frustrated that he does not listen to you. try to wise up yourself. but if you do not do so for a long time, do not worry, you are much like the rest of us.

 

[LightbulbSun]

perhaps unsurprisingly, you do not seem to have learned anything from all the very perosnal and frank posts here from people with more experience. you are still frustrated that he does not listen to you. try to wise up yourself. but if you do not do so for a long time, do not worry, you are much like the rest of us.

I have learned a lot from the responses here, and I do make a conscious effort at learning everyday to improve myself. Whether that'd be questioning my viewpoints, learning a new subject etc. See the difference between me and my father is that I don't value my viewpoints to the umpteenth degree. I know there's a lot to learn and that I do not know it all, and that's all I'm trying to make my father see. This "humans suck, my opinions are superior" disposition doesn't do any good.

 

[Integral]

The longer a person has thought a certain way, the harder it is to change it. I'm not making some ridiculous claim here. It's textbook psychology. This is the way most people are.

You are probably correct. Though I know that there are other , "old folk" , who can still listen and learn. Beyond that patterned thinking does not have to imply close mindedness. It can be seen a methods of analysis. How do you approach a problem, with the goal of understanding. I have run into individuals of ALL ages who believe that they have a superior understanding / knowledge, it is very difficult for this type to learn anything, since they already know everything.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It is also often true that a person who has thought a certain way for a long time has learned to do so through life experience. So a particular way of thinking may have served so well, and it may have been reenforced for so long that change cannot be expected as a sudden revelation, no matter how strong the motivation. It may take time to assimilate the information and reconcile the previous beliefs with the new information. And when one factors in ego, it may take even longer to admit what has already be realized.

Also, there may be social implications associated with changing one's pov. For example, if one's entire peer group distinctly identifies itself with something like mocking liberals or conservatives, it may require more than simple facts to motivate a change as this represents a rejection of the philosphy of the peer group; hence a rejection of one's social network. One extreme example would be a KKK member who no longer believes in racist propoganda. Ultimately a rejection of racism is a rejection of the group, which may represent the majority of the person's social life and friends. Another example might be for someone to convert to atheism when they were previously active in a church.

 

[BoredNL]

I am an agnostic who was previously a Christian.. It ain't easy when your family is still Christian. I chose the easy way out, which is simply to act Christian when need be and not tell them. lol (I'd really rather not have a throng of them attempting to save my soul constantly, hah)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Yes, and it works the other way around as well. In my own experience, and ironically, it is common for some religious converts [for some Christian religions] to reject their old group of friends, and even family. We see this in the extreme with cults.

 

[ank_gl]

humans were the dumbest creatures ever.

that is almost true

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

that is almost true

Yes he didn't use the present tense, are.

 

[ank_gl]

That was love to him, it was something he didn't have growing up.

different people have different ways of showing love

 

[LightbulbSun]

Yes he didn't use the present tense, are.

My father uses the present tense when saying this.