How Do You Prove a Recursive Sequence Using Strong Induction?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of strong induction to prove a property of a recursively defined sequence. Participants are attempting to establish that the sequence defined by f(0) = 0, f(1) = 1, and f(n+1) = 3f(n) + 10f(n-1) for n ≥ 1 satisfies the inequality f(n) < 5^n for all integers n ≥ 0.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant initiates the discussion by expressing difficulty in using strong induction for the recursive sequence and requests assistance.
  • Another participant outlines a proof attempt, detailing the base case and the induction step, suggesting that if f(n) < 5^n and f(n-1) < 5^(n-1), then f(n+1) can be shown to be less than 5^(n+1).
  • Several participants express confusion regarding specific steps in the proof, particularly the transition from the inequality involving f(n) and f(n-1) to the final conclusion.
  • One participant attempts to clarify the arithmetic involved in the proof, breaking down the steps to show how the inequalities are derived.
  • Another participant acknowledges the clarification and expresses that strong induction is generally confusing for them.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the clarity of the proof steps, as multiple participants express confusion about the reasoning. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the understanding of the proof process.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully agreed on the validity of the proof steps, and there are indications of misunderstanding in the mathematical manipulations involved. The discussion highlights the complexity of applying strong induction in this context.

andrew1
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Hi,

I'm currently having trouble with using strong induction to prove a recursive sequence and don't know where to begin, any help would be great thanks.

Define a recursive sequence f(0), f(1), f(2),... by
f(0) = 0
f(1) = 1
f(n+1) = 3f(n) + 10f(n-1), for all integers n>=1

Prove by strong induction that f(n) < 5^n for all integers n>=0
 
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andrew said:
Hi,

I'm currently having trouble with using strong induction to prove a recursive sequence and don't know where to begin, any help would be great thanks.

Define a recursive sequence f(0), f(1), f(2),... by
f(0) = 0
f(1) = 1
f(n+1) = 3f(n) + 10f(n-1), for all integers n>=1

Prove by strong induction that f(n) < 5^n for all integers n>=0

because f(1) < $5^1$ and f(0) = 0 <5 $^0$ base step is true

now we need to prove the induction step

$f(n ) < 5^n$
$f(n-1 ) < 5^{n-1}$
f(n+2) = 3 f(n) + 10 f(n-1)

< $3 * 5^n + 10 * 5^{n-1}$
< $3 * 5^n + 2 * 5^n$
< $5 * 5^n $
< $5^{n+1}$

so if it true for n and n-1 it is true for n+ 1
so induction step is proved
hence proved
 
Last edited:
Thank you, but I'm confused as to how you arrived at that conclusion, could you provide a description of the process that you went through for each of the steps please.
 
andrew said:
Thank you, but I'm confused as to how you arrived at that conclusion, could you provide a description of the process that you went through for each of the steps please.
can you explain in which step there was confusion.
 
kaliprasad said:
can you explain in which step there was confusion.

This part doesn't make much sense to me

< $3 * 5^n + 10 * 5^{n-1}$
< $3 * 5^n + 2 * 5^n$
< $5 * 5^n $
< $5^{n+1}$
 
andrew said:
This part doesn't make much sense to me

< $3 * 5^n + 10 * 5^{n-1}$
< $3 * 5^n + 2 * 5^n$
< $5 * 5^n $
< $5^{n+1}$

OK \:
we have f(n) < $5^n$so 3 f( n) < 3 * 5^n

f(n-1) < $5^{n-1}$ it is true upto n so for all lower values

so f(n+1) = 3f(n) + 10 f(n-1)
< $3 * 5^n + 10 * 5^{n-1}$ (adding last 2)
< $3 * 5^n + 2 * 5 * 5^{n-1}$ (as 10 -= 2 * 5)
< $3 * 5^n + 2 * 5^n$
< $(3 + 2) * 5^n$
< $5 * 5^n$
< $5^{n+1}$

I hope now all steps are clear. I have just put the values and did arithmetic
 
kaliprasad said:
OK \:
we have f(n) < $5^n$so 3 f( n) < 3 * 5^n

f(n-1) < $5^{n-1}$ it is true upto n so for all lower values

so f(n+1) = 3f(n) + 10 f(n-1)
< $3 * 5^n + 10 * 5^{n-1}$ (adding last 2)
< $3 * 5^n + 2 * 5 * 5^{n-1}$ (as 10 -= 2 * 5)
< $3 * 5^n + 2 * 5^n$
< $(3 + 2) * 5^n$
< $5 * 5^n$
< $5^{n+1}$

I hope now all steps are clear. I have just put the values and did arithmetic

Hmmk, makes more sense now, strong induction always seems to confuse me :(
 

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