How do you rule the elderly people?

[dan020350]

Like you see senior citizens, they are at peace when there are benefits and a place to rest at their shelter; but what about the poor countries how do you manage and care for the elder?

 

[lisab]

Let me see if I understand what you mean. When you ask "How do you rule the elderly people?" what you mean is, "How do poor countries provide for the needs of elderly people?", is that correct?

Different countries have different methods of addressing this need. I suspect for many poor countries, the elderly must rely on their family for support.

 

[dan020350]

I think the question becomes if you have a dying grandmother but is not really dying but looks dead do you hire a nurse or do you try to heal her?

 

[Choppy]

I think I understand what you're asking. Maybe.

Typically when the elderly cannot afford health care (either directly because they are poor and because they happen to live in a country that doesn't provide such services to it's poor) the elderly are often cared for by family members, friends, volunteer organizations, or religious groups or institutions.

If you have a sick or dying elderly relative and you have not access to proper health care, then obviously hiring a nurse is not going to be an option. In such scenarios people take care of each other the best they can, or at least, that's what we'd like to hope. Unfortunately I'm sure that elder abuse runs rampant under conditions where there are no mechanisms in place to stop it.

 

[Danger]

This subject is very important to me, because I just came to the decision a couple of days ago that I really have to sell my house and move into an assisted-care facility. I want to stay in my current town, and the one place here that suits me has a 6-year waiting list. I might be able to sneak in on that because I'll be able to afford a suite rather than just a room with a shared bathroom. (I didn't even share a bathroom with my wife; we each had our own. Well, mine was a 1/2 bath, so I used her tub/shower, but not the toilet. That's an accessibility issue,not a bacterial one; when I got to go, I got to go, and there'd better not be anybody in my way. I might also be there for several hours.) I took a tour of the place last year and it's really nice for not being a private home. They won't let me weld in the kitchen (but then again my wife wouldn't either), but there's a small workroom with a table saw that I could take my Dremels and drill press and grinders and vises and whatnot into for use, and it opens upon a cobblestone courtyard where I could do welding in dry weather. They provide all of the meals and housekeeping services, with medical staff on standby, and it's okay to have a microwave, fridge, coffee maker, etc. in your unit. And Lucy is absolutely welcome. There's already a cat there who sort of owns the place, but Lucy wouldn't be leaving the apartment. All in all, I know that it's the right thing to do, but...
...considering that my current 2-story 4-bedroom house with a basement was overstuffed to the point that I had to buy a 20' C-Can to store the excess on my lawn... where the hell am I supposed to put my stuff?! The suite is only 2 small rooms plus bathroom.
Dealing with all of this is one reason that I've been so distracted lately.

 

[DaveC426913]

when I got to go, I got to go, and there'd better not be anybody in my way. I might also be there for several hours.

Crohn's?

 

[edward]

I am definitely not poor. I have great medical insurance, but three weeks ago when my wife fell and broke her ankle I found out how the system works. Her ankle was broken in three places, and her foot was just dangling. She waited in emergency two hours before she was given an x ray and then waited another three hours before she was given any pain medication.

The next morning she had surgery and a metal plate and a number of screws were put on and into the bone. Two days later she was released from the hospital. That is when the fun began. I knew that my wife had arthritis in the knee of her good leg, yet when she was released the physical therapist who determined what equipment she would be supplied with gave her a walker and told her to hop on the foot with the arthritic knee. She can put no weight on the broken ankle.

I asked my wife's sister to bring her home from the hospital while I went out and bought a bedside potty and rented a transportation wheel chair. Insurance only pays for one assistance item. At home the walker was useless in trying to get my wife out of the car. I finally rolled the window down on the passenger side of the car and told her to grab the window frame to pull herself up. I had my shoulder against the car door and the wheel chair positioned behind her.

There is no in home care except for a twice per week bath provided by Medicare + a supplemental policy. Physical therapy can't start until her arthritic knee is assessed by our primary care giver. A few friends and family were involved with helping and providing food the first week, than they all seemed to disappear.

In the meantime I have been the primary care giver. That is what it boils down to. Unless it is an end of life, or nursing home situation the family gives the care. We are now in the third week and have gotten beyond needing the blasted bedside potty because I have mounted safety bars and rails all over the place.

I am 74 and my wife is 72. This has been a very difficult time but we try to keep our sense of humor. The other day I bent down to unlock the wheels on the transport chair and inadvertently ended up bent over with the push handle of the chair stuck in my shirt pocket. Trying to stand up was a real hoot. One night I was pushing her down the hallway without turning on the light and I ran over the dog's squeaky toy. Just for fun we have made up a pilots type check list with a lot of; brakes off ,runway clear, and potty chair safely to the rear. type of jargon.

In three more weeks the cast comes off and we are hoping for the best.

 

[Danger]

Crohn's?

No, although I have an acquaintance with that, and another with irritatable bowel syndrome. In my case, it's occasional loss of muscular control due to oxygen deprivation.

edit: Holy cats, Edward! That's horrible! I bet that Dave is just as glad as I am to be Canadian when we hear things like that.

 

[edward]

This subject is very important to me, because I just came to the decision a couple of days ago that I really have to sell my house and move into an assisted-care facility. I want to stay in my current town, and the one place here that suits me has a 6-year waiting list. I might be able to sneak in on that because I'll be able to afford a suite rather than just a room with a shared bathroom. (I didn't even share a bathroom with my wife; we each had our own. Well, mine was a 1/2 bath, so I used her tub/shower, but not the toilet. That's an accessibility issue,not a bacterial one; when I got to go, I got to go, and there'd better not be anybody in my way. I might also be there for several hours.) I took a tour of the place last year and it's really nice for not being a private home. They won't let me weld in the kitchen (but then again my wife wouldn't either), but there's a small workroom with a table saw that I could take my Dremels and drill press and grinders and vises and whatnot into for use, and it opens upon a cobblestone courtyard where I could do welding in dry weather. They provide all of the meals and housekeeping services, with medical staff on standby, and it's okay to have a microwave, fridge, coffee maker, etc. in your unit. And Lucy is absolutely welcome. There's already a cat there who sort of owns the place, but Lucy wouldn't be leaving the apartment. All in all, I know that it's the right thing to do, but...
...considering that my current 2-story 4-bedroom house with a basement was overstuffed to the point that I had to buy a 20' C-Can to store the excess on my lawn... where the hell am I supposed to put my stuff?! The suite is only 2 small rooms plus bathroom.
Dealing with all of this is one reason that I've been so distracted lately.

I wish you the very best Danger. I once asked a really old guy how he managed to do so much. He said; "I just keep on keeping on". What to do with our " stuff" is going to be the hard part. I have a work shop that probably has stuff in it that I don't even remember.

 

[Danger]

I have a work shop that probably has stuff in it that I don't even remember.

The problem with being a hoarder... I don't remember what it is, I have no use for it, but I know that it's mine so I want it. The number of things that I've built out of scraps that I picked up along the road and figured might be useful someday verified my original premise, but it's out of control. At least, once I got onto the ADD meds about 15 years ago, I quit picking up every interesting thing that I saw on the ground.

 

[BobG]

The US is similar to other countries in that family members usually care for their elderly relatives. The primary difference is there are more tools to do that with in the US.

Most elderly prefer to live independent as long as possible, but need more and more help. Eventually, in home care becomes a major burden.

My mother cares for my dad (who suffers from Parkinson's). They have enough money to make the house livable (special bed, an electric recliner chair that tilts to make it easier to exit/sit, rails in the shower, etc), but he's reached a point where he can't be left alone for longer than short periods. She can barely go to the store for groceries, let alone have any life outside the home.

A friend of mine moved her mother into her house (and rents out her mother's house). Her mother deeply resents her for that and still insists she'll eventually move back into her own house. Her mother's mental faculties are declining. My friend finally had to take away her mother's access to her own money because she kept bouncing checks. Her mother's response was to call social services and report her daughter for elderly abuse.

At least there are homes where the elderly can live and receive assistance once the level of care is beyond what the family is capable of. The quality of the homes depend on how much you can pay. If you've saved for your retirement, assisted living can be a very good experience. For the poor, Medicare and Medicaid will pay for assisted living once all of a person's assets have been depleted. There's regulations on how elderly have to be taken care of, but the quality still varies.

Plus there are in-between options. A person can get home care on at least a part time basis, even if only to give the primary caregiver family member a much needed break.

Lastly, an aging person could commit some kind of white collar crime that would get them incarcerated for a number of years - preferably, a white collar crime that would land them in federal prison instead of state prison (quality of state prisons varies greatly among the states - there are states where a person wouldn't want to be even in a minimum security prison). Minimum security federal prisons have good medical care, constant monitoring, and the opportunity for social interaction with non-violent criminals - most of whom are of at least average intelligence. A person could even take college courses. The advantage over a home for the elderly is that residing in a federal prison is free (or almost free), so a person doesn't have to deplete all of their personal assets. (Okay, only half serious, but it really wouldn't be a horrible option.)

We talked a little bit about how to handle aging family members a few years ago (but the topic was slightly different). https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-it-okay-to-cheat-on-a-spouse-that-has-alzheimers.530897

 

[Danger]

The advantage over a home for the elderly is that residing in a federal prison is free (or almost free), so a person doesn't have to deplete all of their personal assets.

As ludicrous as that proposal appears on the surface, it really isn't. Given the exposes of elder abuse in so-called care facilities over the past few years (including physical harm up to murder), a prison might well be a safer environment.