How Does a Complete Loss of Self-Image Affect Fitness Decisions?

[lisab]

I think this may be a troll thread. Cuz this just all adds up to a pissing contest.

Nah, Flex isn't a troll.

 

[Willowz]

Nah, Flex isn't a troll.

Then, if I may psycho-babble a bit more (I can't shut up as I intended to, well oh well)... It may be that someone is bullgarbageting themselves. Otherwise were going to be doing the BS'ing here.

 

[khemist]

Then, if I may psycho-babble a bit more (I can't shut up as I intended to, well oh well)... It may be that someone is bullgarbageting themselves. Otherwise were going to be doing the BS'ing here.

This thread does seem a little ridiculous.

 

[lisab]

Then, if I may psycho-babble a bit more (I can't shut up as I intended to, well oh well)... It may be that someone is bullgarbageting themselves. Otherwise were going to be doing the BS'ing here.

I say, BS away! It is GD, after all !

 

[FlexGunship]

It wasn't meant to be a troll thread. To be honest, no one seemed to capture that weird feeling I get when I'm trying to figure out where I fit in the hierarchy of men. Maybe it's a seriously isolated thing. That's why I posed it as a question: "does anyone have a similar experience?" The answer seems to be a resounding: no. We can just drop it.

Maybe, and I pose this as a challenge, no one here has an accurate self-image. Instead, each of you has constructed a persistent snapshot of yourself and objective assessment escapes you; especially as you age and change.

Haven't you ever spent 10 minutes trying to get your hair to look right for an important interview. You lean in close to the mirror, adjusting a few hairs here and there. And just as you think you've perfected it, you back away from the mirror and look at yourself as a whole and think "****, I should just start over."

It's the dichotomy that gets me, but apparently no one else here has experienced it. Think about this seriously: if someone arranged 100 members of your gender in order of relative attractiveness (as computed as a weighted average of athletic fitness and physically appealing features) and told you "just jump in your spot." Could you do it?

EDIT: Or an alternative scheme: if people were arranged by ratio of body fat to overall weight, could you find your place then? Even if you knew EXACTLY what your ratio of body fat to weight was; could you do it?

 

[turbo]

I say, BS away! It is GD, after all !

The little girl that used to climb up on my lap when I visited her parents became the US junior powerlifting champion, and the world junior powerlifting champion and then moved on to adult titles. She trained at the gym I joined. I'd gladly spot her, but could never approach her lifts. She had been a tiny girl, but ended up built like a brick (no image-problems there, just performance). Even today, if I bump into her someplace, I have to brace for impact because the bear-hugs are killer. She is no longer in training, and works as an EMT, but she is still really solid.

 

[Pythagorean]

See, I thought of that. I looked into it a little. But I guess I don't quite fit the description. Firstly, I don't experience much anxiety and I handle stress really well. I have no symptoms of depression (in general; everyone gets bummed out or discouraged sometimes). But my understanding of "depersonalization" disorder is that a person is unable to assess their own character subjectively. I have NO problem with that... I'm awesome!

I should clarify, my wording was sloppy. It sounds to me like you're experiencing depersonalization. Not that you have depersonalization disorder. It's a very common experience even without the mental disorder.

And no, character has nothing to do with it, it's mostly about body. Read the DSM criteria:

http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/depersdis.htm

but remember, this is the disorder being described. A disorder is characterized mostly by it's destructive (or at least anti-productive) nature. Most disorders have this criteria (it's item C. for Depersonalization):

"C. The depersonalization causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning."

so that's kind of the dividing line between it being a disorder, or just a symptom.

Anecdotally, I have had the symptom of depersonalization several times, but I do not have the disorder because the symptoms do not cause me distress or interfere with my social function in an obvious way, likely because the symptoms I experience are much milder (and less common) than they are for someone with the disorder.

In fact, I think many people experience depersonalization more commonly nowadays in the communication/information age (out of curiousity, where do you get your body-building info? Do you have a local community or do you use the internet?) but that's overly speculative.

 

[FlexGunship]

In fact, I think many people experience depersonalization more commonly nowadays in the communication/information age (out of curiousity, where do you get your body-building info? Do you have a local community or do you use the internet?) but that's overly speculative.

I'm still not sure that lines up with what I experience. I don't feel "detached" from my body.

I didn't mean to imply I'm doing anybody building. That seems to have started as a side story from another forum member and got carried forward. I simply changed my diet and adopted a more active lifestyle. I'm fine with how I look; those were really just side notes and not meant to significantly direct the narrative (for the purposes of letting thread-readers know that I'm not experiencing self-loathing, depression, or anything of the sort).

But I'm dead serious when I say, I would have to see a photograph of myself next to a person (or stand in the mirror with them) to be able to adequately judge my appearance compared to theirs.

My first realization came after a party a couple of years ago. I have a friend, and I always considered us "roughly the same size." But then, after the party, some pictures were circulating online, and I saw us next to each other, and he was easily 20lbs heavier than me; noticeably thicker. Get it? The self-image I was carrying around in my head was WAY off.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Has anyone else experienced a complete loss of self-image?

Vampires.

Think about it.

 

[turbo]

Vampires.

Think about it.

Good one!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Good one!

I'm thinking we should call him CountGunship.

 

[turbo]

I'm thinking we should call him CountGunship.

Vlad Gunship would be OK, too.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Staring at yourself in the mirror too long is like saying a word over and over until it loses meaning.

IMHOLO (in my humble old lady opinion): I think as long as you are healthy, why all the self-examination and comparison? If you have two strong legs to get you around and two strong arms to help yourself and others, a reliable brain, good eyesight and hearing, and all of the other typical blessings of youth, then you have a perfect body. Measure yourself by what you can do with what you have, rather than just what you have.

Enough mirror contemplating. Go help the elderly neighbor with the bad knees get her groceries up the stairs, and help a slow youngster with math homework, and score yourself 5 stars for awesomeness.

 

[turbo]

Staring at yourself in the mirror too long is like saying a word over and over until it loses meaning.

IMHOLO (in my humble old lady opinion): I think as long as you are healthy, why all the self-examination and comparison? If you have two strong legs to get you around and two strong arms to help yourself and others, a reliable brain, good eyesight and hearing, and all of the other typical blessings of youth, then you have a perfect body. Measure yourself by what you can do with what you have, rather than just what you have.

Enough mirror contemplating. Go help the elderly neighbor with the bad knees get her groceries up the stairs, and help a slow youngster with math homework, and score yourself 5 stars for awesomeness.

Great!

 

[Pythagorean]

But I'm dead serious when I say, I would have to see a photograph of myself next to a person (or stand in the mirror with them) to be able to adequately judge my appearance compared to theirs.

Wait a minute, isn't that completely normal? We only have other humans to compare to.

 

[FlexGunship]

Staring at yourself in the mirror too long is like saying a word over and over until it loses meaning.

IMHOLO (in my humble old lady opinion): I think as long as you are healthy, why all the self-examination and comparison? If you have two strong legs to get you around and two strong arms to help yourself and others, a reliable brain, good eyesight and hearing, and all of the other typical blessings of youth, then you have a perfect body. Measure yourself by what you can do with what you have, rather than just what you have.

Enough mirror contemplating. Go help the elderly neighbor with the bad knees get her groceries up the stairs, and help a slow youngster with math homework, and score yourself 5 stars for awesomeness.

Sigh, I retire my question. This wasn't really supposed to be philosophical. I appreciate what you're saying, but I do my volunteer work and I help out my elderly biker neighbors when they go astray with their technology.

It just a dose of cognitive dissonance. I was thinking that it was a universal neural blind spot, but no one seems to know what I'm talking about.

I officially declare the thread over.

Now we can finally discuss awesome alternative names: I'm digging Count Gunship; I love capes. Vlad Gunship isn't so hot. I had a good friend in college named Vlad and let me tell you: he owns that name.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Flex the Impaler?

 

[FlexGunship]

Flex the Impaler?

Wouldn't be the first time I had a nickname similar to that.

"Impaler?! I 'ardly know 'er!"

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Wouldn't be the first time I had a nickname similar to that.

"Impaler?! I 'ardly know 'er!"

Uh, that wasn't quite what I meant but I'll go with that.

 

[Dembadon]

[...]

Now we can finally discuss awesome alternative names: I'm digging Count Gunship; I love capes. Vlad Gunship isn't so hot. I had a good friend in college named Vlad and let me tell you: he owns that name.

You can start jotting down some manly-sounding prefixes and see how they sound with "Gunship."

ThorGunship
TitanGunship
MaxGunship
etc.

Try http://www.angelfire.com/wy/svenskildbiter/Viking/viknams3.html" . You can parse the names and look for one that would sound good in front of, or after, "Gunship."

You could also try, as Ivan suggested, "FlexThe<insert badass title here>." (e.g. FlexTheImpaler, FlexTheConqueror)

 

[Willowz]

FlexTheMeat

 

[FlexGunship]

Well, FlexGunship started as a gamer tag for online gaming (not that I play video games anymore).

I have friends who have the following names:

• Smash Dreadnought
• Limp Tugboat

 

[Moonbear]

I realized, recently, that I've been making fitness decisions almost exclusively based on numbers and statistics. I think it's because I actually, literally, cannot tell how I look when I see myself in the mirror. I pride myself in my rationalism, but I'm beginning to think I'm experiencing a similar condition to what anorexics may deal with.

For the last couple of months, I've been on a high calorie, high protein diet. I've been exercising and doing practical strength training. I can see my weight go up on the scale. I can see my body fat percentage change. But when I look in the mirror I have absolutely no idea how I compare to anyone else. I'm experiencing a unconscious resistance to over-rating myself coupled with an unconscious desire to feel pride.

Has anyone else experienced a complete loss of self-image?

I hate to break the news to you, but the disorder you're suffering from is...

<drumroll please>


being completely normal.

You're probably so used to reading stories from people with one sort of a disorder or another...those who look at themselves and see too big, too small, too this or that, that you've lost perspective that normal people just really don't see themselves as anything extraordinary one way or the other. It's REALLY hard to look at yourself and know how you compare to other people, and there really isn't much need to do so.

Are you otherwise happy? Do you have some good friends and social relationships? Are you enjoying working out? Do you have the energy to keep doing it? If so, yep, you're hopelessly normal. That's a good thing.

You care enough about your body to work out (so you're NOT lacking in self image), but aren't obsessing over body parts...you're not trying to make something bigger, smaller, etc.

 

[rhody]

Sigh, I retire my question.

It just a dose of cognitive dissonance. I was thinking that it was a universal neural blind spot, but no one seems to know what I'm talking about.

I officially declare the thread over.

Flex,

Ever since you posted this, a little bird went off in my head, I read about this months ago, fortunately it only took me an hour or so to find it, from "Mapping the Mind" by Rita Carter, page 196. See figure below:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/8883/voneconomo.jpg
quoted from the text:

Von Economo neurons (VENs) are long spindly cells which have been found only in human brains and those of some other primates and which seem to be crucial for social intelligence. They occur in the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) and, in humans in the insula. The ACC is active when people assess their own actions, especially in a social context, and when we experience empathy, trust, guilt and deceipt. It seems to measure what a person is doing, and the results of the action, against their goals, providing a feedback mechanism that alerts people speedily to their errors so they can alter their actions. VENs bridge the upper part of the limbic system at the bottom of the ACC, and the cortex, and are thought to ensure that information about one's visceral reactions to what is going on are communicated to the cortex so that they can be taken into account as the conscious brain works out what to do, They are one of the mechanisms which seem to give rise to the sense of self. In the insula, which is concerned with the visceral self (monitoring our body's boundaries, and information from the internal organs) VENs may carry out a similar bridging function. One part of the brain which is particularly concerned with monitoring own own internal states lies within the inside front edge of the longitudinal fissure, the deep chasm that runs from the front of the brain to the back. This, the anterior cingulate cortex, is sensitive to information from the body and seems to play a part in labeling stimuli as coming from outside or in.

Rhody...

Perhaps SW Vandecarr or Pythagorean would care to comment or elaborate further...
I am not suggesting I know why you experienced what you did, just where and what parts of the brain may be involved.

 

[Chronos]

That brain picture totally disoriented me.

 

[Pythagorean]

"one of the mechanisms" :P that about sums it up!

I've heard a lot about the precuneus and also the temporoparietal junction (naively, temporal lobes are semantic memory and parietal lobes are based in abstractions of spatial sensory, so you might see how people can define the border between themselves and the outside world in a spatial and semantic way.) I think Ramachandran talked about the angular gyrus, which is around that area. But then there's also the whole pre-frontal cortex's.

So I guess you can be in many places at once, as long as your locations are located a small distance from each other.

 

[FlexGunship]

Flex,

Ever since you posted this, a little bird went off in my head, I read about this months ago, fortunately it only took me an hour or so to find it, from "Mapping the Mind" by Rita Carter, page 196. See figure below:

Rhody, I appreciate the time you invested in your contribution. Alas, I seem pretty good at determining internal stimuli and external stimuli (well, as far as I can tell), and apart from my political views, I really don't know that I have any difficulty gauging social interactions.

It seems to measure what a person is doing, and the results of the action, against their goals, providing a feedback mechanism that alerts people speedily to their errors so they can alter their actions.

This I pride myself on. I can admit I'm wrong so fast that people get frustrated because they can't "call me on it."

Friend: "Dude, you're doing that wrong."
Flex: "No, I'm--- Oh, yeah. Thanks."
Friend: "Idiot."
Flex: "I know, right?"

Maybe my VENs are okay. In any case, something to mull over. Thanks, I love learning new things.

 

[DoggerDan]

I did an AWFUL job of explaining it, I guess. I don't have a self-esteem issue. I'm happy with my body, and I'm really pleased with the changes I'm making.

That being said... I couldn't tell you if my body looks like the scrawny guy riding the BMX bike without a shirt, or like James Bond-era Pierce Brosnan.

Without a couple of profile pics, either color, B&W, or even shadow, we can't tell what shape you're in, either.

As for diet and exercise, just go paleo and stay active, as in working hard several hours a day.

 

[FlexGunship]

Available in the member photo thread.