How Does Change Occur in the Universe?

[wuliheron]

That's really nice that you said that, but that doesn't mean a lot in an ontological debate. 'Why change?' is just a fundamental question from ontology. (IMO, without an answer.) 'Is there a more fundamental question than change?' is another fundamental question, with the answer, IMO: no (at least if you restrict yourself to questions about the physical universe).

BTW: Calling this mumbo jumbo is somewhat disrespectful to those who started with some silly, but first, ontological question the whole scientific enterprise which a few thousand years later gave you your iPhone.

Calling it a fundamental ontological issue is like a religious person claiming it is a fundamental spiritual issue. A simple exchange of one metaphysical description for another without any clear definition of the terms or context. In other words, mumbo jumbo by definition. Not an insult, but merely a description. That some religious and metaphysically minded people take offense at such descriptions, while others don't, is therefore not surprising.

 

[wuliheron]

Well, yes the equations on paper don't change but mostly everything else does.

Whatever that means!

 

[Willowz]

Whatever that means!

In other words, we need not change the mathematics, but everything else flows.

 

[apeiron]

How are yo so sure stasis is so important to change. You have failed to give one account of it. All I see is change.

You were the one asking the question of how change is possible. Which means you must be presuming that no change is somehow more natural. Therefore you are presuming stasis as foundational. So I'm asking you to give an account of stasis.

 

[wuliheron]

In other words, we need not change the mathematics, but everything else flows.

What mathematics? What equations? What flows?

 

[Willowz]

You were the one asking the question of how change is possible. Which means you must be presuming that no change is somehow more natural.

No, I haven't made that presumption. Not to my knowledge.

 

[Willowz]

What mathematics? What equations? What flows?

This is getting absurd.

 

[apeiron]

No, I haven't made that presumption. Not to my knowledge.

You said you were concerned about the concept of change. You asked how it was possible. So I am asking you why you might think things could be otherwise. If change was in fact not possible, there would only be stasis.

So - deep breath - what motivates your concern over the concept of change here? Why do you think it an issue? What are you assuming that makes it an issue?

 

[Willowz]

Aristotle called it the uncaused cause. Something that got 'motion' started. Maybe I should rephrase the question. Why do things change? Is it because of time, QM, xyz? Why is there something rather than nothing?

 

[Willowz]

Another aspect of this thread is that "ultimate" questions are pointless. They are too generalised and too broad to give any satisfiable answer.

 

[Tregg Smith]

IN https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=525749" thread a question was asked.

“Why is there Something rather than Nothing”

For there something to come out from nothing - or whatever the case may be - is required the concept of change.

You may have heard in philosophy, panta rei or 'You can't step into the same river twice.".

So, how is change possible? And, if this isn't the ultimate question, then what is?

Everything flows and nothing stays.
Everything flows and nothing abides.
Everything gives way and nothing stays fixed.
Everything flows; nothing remains.
All is flux, nothing is stationary.
All is flux, nothing stays still.
All flows, nothing stays.

From that view nothing exists except by our perception or belief. Like we call it a chair but look closer and it's all waves of energy.

 

[Aidyan]

I think the answer to these kind of questions about change, time, the existence of something or not, boil down to the ultimate question: what is consciousness? If this will not get an answer these questions won't neither.

 

[Maui]

Is this thread in any way motivated by the impossibility in the block universe of SR to determine how and why change happens?

 

[Maui]

I think the answer to these kind of questions about change, time, the existence of something or not, boil down to the ultimate question: what is consciousness? If this will not get an answer these questions won't neither.

You say this because you know what matter is? Or what time is?

I'd say a deep understanding of consciousness requires a deep understanding of matter and time, which does not currently exist(except in the minds of a few brain-washed scientists who push hard their fringe theories)

 

[Willowz]

Is this thread in any way motivated by the impossibility in the block universe of SR to determine how and why change happens?

I think the question can be directed at any eternalistic fashioned universe.