How Does God's Omniscience Influence Our Understanding of Free Will?

[Tog_Neve]

Megashawn...
That whole example of the hitting your finger with a nail...
You may have to go into more on that one because I have no idea what you were talking about in reference to this discussion.

I see where you say it was not your will to hit your finger with a hammer. OK... So...

There are many things that will happen in life that will be against your WILL... Your WILL cannot control the weather...your WILL cannot control what other people do. Your WILL cannot change the laws of physics...nor Murphy's Law ;).

So things happening against your WILL does not affect your free will.

Either bad example or you need to go into it a little more to try and apply it...sorry I may have just missed something there as well.

 

[megashawn]

Probably a bad example, I don't feel like explaining it.

I'd have to agree with Russ's comment, and what you say.

But if god is actually causing the wind to blow and make my hammer glance the nail, smashing my finger, is that not against my will? Is this not what he has done with Pharoh, from a few pages back?

But yes, I agree with russ, in that I'm free to do whatever I can do. The things that limit what I can do may or may not be related to a god, and frankly, I don't care. If God gets his kicks out of smashing my fingers, so be it, who am I to question the all mighty?

But if he does, as seems to be the case with pharoh, then why does he bother telling us we have free will?

Hell, what's it matter if my previos post is on subject? Look at the title of the thread "God's Omniscience" What does free will have to do with the original topic?

Well, a lot I suppose.

It sure must be boring being god. You already know the ending to every book, movie, and playboy mag before it's even produced. He knew Brittany and Maddonna would be making out before either of them was ever born. Why does he submit himself to such torture? Seems a being of unlimited ability would/should be capable of designing a better plan. Its like, why run down a dark ally when I know there is a piano waiting to fall on my head?

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by megashawn
But if god is actually causing the wind to blow and make my hammer glance the nail, smashing my finger, is that not against my will?

Yes, and that is of course the definition. So the question is, what do you believe? Do you believe there is an unseen supernatural force overriding the laws of nature to affect your life? (if the answer is no, then you do believe in freewill - by definition) If there was, wouldn't there be evidence of it?

But if he does, as seems to be the case with pharoh, then why does he bother telling us we have free will?

Implied threat? Privelege to be revoked? Either way, the relgious stance is that he only rarely intervenes to trump freewill.

A few years ago I had a rough spot in my life that led me to question the concept of freewill, but in a different way. Actions of certain people intervened to change the course of my life. I came to the conclusion that there will always be things that are not within your control. Your only recourse is to make sure that you do actively control the things you can. (there is a saying posted on the wall in my parents' house that says it eloquently, I'll try to find it) The fallacy of fate leads people to do the opposite - since they think their path is preordained (by God, men, the laws of physics, or genetics, it doesn't matter) they don't TRY and don't control the things that ARE under their control. The nonexistent preordained failure then ends up a self-fulfilling prophecy.

For more on the subject, read "Oedipus" and watch "The Matrix" and "The Matrix, Reloaded." (over and over and over)