How does Heat Death work in a universe with negative curvature?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of Heat Death in a universe characterized by negative curvature. Participants explore the implications of this scenario on observable phenomena, the role of forces in maintaining structures like galaxies, and the potential for proton decay over vast timescales.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether an observer in such a universe would witness all other particles entering a horizon, leading to a scenario where only the observer remains in the observable universe, and whether this can occur in finite time.
  • Another participant suggests that forces may keep structures like the Milky Way intact, depending on their relative magnitudes.
  • A participant discusses the potential for proton decay, noting that if it occurs, half of the protons would decay after a time span of 10^34 years, and questions whether Heat Death could still be achieved in the Milky Way if proton decay is not real.
  • There is a mention of the Third Law of Thermodynamics, which implies that while the universe may approach maximum entropy, it would never reach absolute zero, suggesting a persistent state of motion.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of the Big Rip, proposing that in a rapidly expanding universe, all particles except for the observer could enter an event horizon, potentially leading to a form of Heat Death occurring in finite time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of cosmological curvature, the reality of proton decay, and the conditions under which Heat Death may occur. No consensus is reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight assumptions regarding the nature of forces, the validity of proton decay, and the implications of thermodynamic laws, which remain unresolved within the discussion.

Edward Solomo
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I'm assuming that the observer witnesses all other particles enter a horizon, be it an event horizon or the particle horizon. Thus the observer's observable universe would contain himself only. Is this understanding correct and can it happen in finite time? Also does such a universe have time (maximum entropy is achieved).
 
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Forces hold stuff together, Edward. Depending on relative magnitudes, a galaxy like our Milky Way might remain intact.
 
marcus said:
Forces hold stuff together, Edward. Depending on relative magnitudes, a galaxy like our Milky Way might remain intact.

I was reading that protons MIGHT decay in the very distant future (half life decay time is given by the lower bound 1.01×1034). The decay process converts a proton into a positron and a pion (neutral). So after 1034 years, half of the protons will be gone!

EDIT: Assuming that proton decay is real.

However if Proton decay is not real, can heat death be achieved in our Milky Galaxy, even as time elapsed goes to infinity? Or after a finite amount of time the Milky Way would be very cold but due to the Third Law of Thermodynamics, never reaches absolute zero (and thus there is always observable motion). Thus the Second Law predicts heath death, but the third law makes it asymptotic.
 
Last edited:
What idea do you have in mind with respect to cosmological curvature? This looks like slapping the 'truth' out of a tuna to me.
 
Chronos said:
What idea do you have in mind with respect to cosmological curvature? This looks like slapping the 'truth' out of a tuna to me.

Interestingly I was describing an effect known as the Big Rip, or at least the end result of such an event, where all particles other than the observer have entered an event horizon because of a rapidly expanding universe. This seems to be Heat Death in finite time within finite volume.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rip
 

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