How does Newton's Second Law Relate Velocity and Force?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around Newton's second law, specifically the relationship between force, momentum, and velocity in a relativistic context. The original poster attempts to show that if the force is always parallel to the velocity, then the force can be expressed as F = gamma^3 * m * a, where gamma is the Lorentz factor.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of Newton's second law in a relativistic framework, questioning the constancy of gamma and its dependence on velocity. There are attempts to differentiate momentum using the product rule and chain rule, with some participants clarifying the implications of the force being parallel to velocity.

Discussion Status

The discussion has progressed with participants providing guidance on the differentiation process and the application of the product and chain rules. There is a recognition of the complexity involved in relating the terms and a collaborative effort to clarify the steps needed to reach the desired expression.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the importance of understanding the time dependence of gamma and the implications of applying force parallel to velocity in the context of relativistic motion. There is an acknowledgment of the challenges posed by the mathematical manipulation required to derive the final expression.

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Homework Statement



Newton's second law is given by F = dp/dt. If the force is always parallel to the velocity, show that F = gamma3ma

Homework Equations



p = gamma*mv
gamma = 1/(1-v2/c2)1/2

The Attempt at a Solution



I really have no clue where to begin. This is what I've done so far, but I don't think I'm even on the right track.

F = dp/dt = gamma3ma = [1/(1-v2/c2)1/2]3ma
=1/(1-v2/c2)3/2ma
=1/(1 - 3v2/c2 + 3v4/c4 - v6/c6)1/2ma

Thats as far as i get on the right side.

For the left, all i can manage is dp/dt = d/dx p = d/dx gamma*mv
This is where I get confused. gamma and m are constant, so does dp/dt = gamma*m*dv/dt?

Some clarification would be great.

Thanks
 
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beecher said:

Homework Statement



Newton's second law is given by F = dp/dt. If the force is always parallel to the velocity, show that F = gamma3ma

Actually, Newton's second law says that \textbf{F}=\frac{d\textbf{p}}{dt}, this is why the condition that "force is always parallel to velocity" is important. ...Do you see why this condition means F=\frac{dp}{dt}?

Hint: Think of a particle undergoing uniform circular motion, its speed is constant, yet its momentum is still changing...why?

For the left, all i can manage is dp/dt = d/dx p = d/dx gamma*mv
This is where I get confused. gamma and m are constant, so does dp/dt = gamma*m*dv/dt?

Some clarification would be great.

Thanks

\gamma is dependent on the speed of the particle, right? Does the speed of the particle change with time when a force is applied parallel to its motion? If so, then \gamma will have implicit time dependence, and you will need to use the product rule to take the derivative \frac{dp}{dt}
 
Last edited:
That makes sense, I wasnt thinking when I said gamma was constant.
So now I have dp/dt = d/dt(gamma*mv) = m d/dt (gamma*v) and I use product rule
= m (v*d/dt gamma + gamma dv/dt) and now I need to find d/dt gamma
gamma = (1-v2/c2)-1/2 and I use chain rule
d/dt gamma = -1/2 (1-v2/c2)-3/2d/dt(1-v2c-2) which is another product rule
d/dt (1-v2c-2) = -2vc-2+2c-3v2
so now plugging back in I get:
dp/dt = m (v[-1/2 (1-v2/c2)-3/2(-2vc-2+2c-3v2)] + gamma dv/dt)
This = m [v([(-1)(-2v/c2+2v2/c3)]/2gamma3) + gamma*dv/dt]
=m[v([v/c2-v2/c3]/gamma3)]+gamma*dv/dt
=m[(v2/c2-v3/c3)(gamma-3)+gamma*dv/dt]
=(v2/c2-v3/c3)gamma-3m + gamma*dv/dt*m
I am now a lot closer to the final solution, however I still can't get the last step.
I have gamma*dv/dt*m which = gamma*ma on the right side.
I need to make it gamma3ma.
One more tip should do it.
Thanks
 
beecher said:
which is another product rule
d/dt (1-v2c-2) = -2vc-2+2c-3v2

Ermm...isn't the speed of light a constant? You don't need the product rule here, but you do need the chain rule:

\frac{d}{dt}\left(1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}\right)=\frac{-2v}{c^2}\frac{dv}{dt}
 
Your right, I've been doing this for so long my brain is sluggish.
So dp/dt = m(v[-1/2(1-v2/c2)-3/2(-2v/c2dv/dt)] + gammadv/dt)
=m(v[gamma3v/c2dv/dt] + gammadv/dt)
=m(gamma3v2/c2dv/dt + gamma dv/dt)
=mgammadv/dt(gamma2v2/c2+1)
So thanks to your help I can now see the end in sight but still one last hump to get over to finally get the gamma3ma that I am looking for.
 
Concentrate on the term in brackets:

\gamma^2\frac{v^2}{c^2}+1=\frac{v^2}{c^2\left(1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}\right)}+1=\frac{v^2}{c^2-v^2}+1

put everything over a common denominator and simplify...
 
[v2/(c2-v2)]+[(c2-v2)/(c2-v2)]
=c2/c2-v2
Sub back into the rest
m*gammac2dv/dt/(c2-v2)
=[(mc2dv/dt)/(1-v2/c2)1/2] / c2-v2
=[(mc2dv/dt)/(1-v2/c2)1/2] * 1/(c2-v2)
 
Sure, but if you divide both the numerator and denominator of \frac{c^2}{c^2-v^2} by c^2, what do you get?
 
Aha!

Then it becomes gamma2 giving me mgammadv/dt(gamma2)
=mgamma3dv/dt
=gamma3ma
=Solution! :)

Thanks you very much, your help has been greatly appreciated!
 

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