How exactly does friction/external forces affect the momentum?

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The discussion revolves around the effects of friction and external forces on the momentum of objects, particularly in the context of inelastic collisions and the conservation of momentum principle. Participants explore how real-world forces influence momentum, despite theoretical frameworks that assume closed systems.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants question how external forces, such as friction, impact momentum despite the conservation laws. They discuss the relationship between kinetic energy loss and momentum conservation in inelastic collisions. Some seek clarification on experimental errors observed during momentum measurements in lab settings.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the relationship between forces and momentum. Some have offered explanations regarding the conservation of momentum and the role of external forces, while others continue to seek further clarification on specific points and potential sources of error in experiments.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention constraints such as the presence of external forces like gravity and air resistance, as well as the impact of experimental setup on momentum measurements. There is an acknowledgment of human error in lab results, but other factors affecting momentum conservation are also under consideration.

HoneyPancake
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How exactly do friction forces and other external forces change (mostly decrease) the momentum of an object?

We know that the conservation of momentum theory only applies to closed systems with no external forces, yet in real life, there always is external forces that must surely affect the momentum. How do exactly do they affect it?

(I know that friction does work on the object, and therefore decreases the kinetic energy. H/o, shouldn't this not change the momentum? For ex., in inelastic collisions, kinetic energy is lost yet momentum is still conserved...)
 
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External forces just push things around and make them go faster or slower, which changes their momentum. But I think this isn't what you were asking. Can you elaborate?
 
I can see that friction forces affect objects' velocity, which I suppose, should affect there momentum. However, I'm confused as to why in an inelastic collisions, the objects lose kinetic energy (and therefore velocity, right?) and yet still conserve momentum?

To elaborate further, our physics teacher had us do a lab where we collided two balls together and "measured" the momentum to test out the conservation of momentum theory. The initial momentum was close to the final momentum, of course, however, there was still some slight errors. Besides human error, what else could have caused this slight loss of momentum?
 
HoneyPancake said:
I can see that friction forces affect objects' velocity, which I suppose, should affect there momentum. However, I'm confused as to why in an inelastic collisions, the objects lose kinetic energy (and therefore velocity, right?) and yet still conserve momentum?

The conservation of momentum is a direct consequence of Newton's third law. Here's a simplified proof:

m_a applies a force on m_b and m_b applies a force on m_a. m_a accelerates at F/m_a; m_b accelerates at F/m_b in the other direction. After a while, v_a=F/m_a*t and v_b=F/m_b*t. m_a*v_a=F*t and m_b*v_b=F*t, so m_a*v_a = m_b*v_b. That's the conservation of momentum.

Kinetic energy is not conserved because the energy is turned into things like heat and sound.

To elaborate further, our physics teacher had us do a lab where we collided two balls together and "measured" the momentum to test out the conservation of momentum theory. The initial momentum was close to the final momentum, of course, however, there was still some slight errors. Besides human error, what else could have caused this slight loss of momentum?

External forces: gravity (if the table wasn't perfectly level), air resistance, rolling friction, etc. If you just measured mv and said that was the momentum, you would have neglected the balls' rotational motion, which is another source of error.
 

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