How far is this definition of time correct?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition of time, specifically the assertion that time is a change in space. Participants explore various interpretations and implications of this definition, touching on concepts from Special Relativity and the nature of time measurement.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the clarity of the initial definition of time as change in space, seeking a more general understanding akin to definitions of length, mass, and volume.
  • One participant cites Einstein's explanation of time in relation to simultaneous events and clock measurements, suggesting that time is fundamentally what a clock measures.
  • There is a distinction made between coordinate time and proper time, with some participants explaining that coordinate time indicates when an event occurs while proper time is the duration measured by a clock.
  • Time dilation is introduced as a concept where coordinate clocks do not necessarily run at the same rate as proper clocks, leading to confusion about simultaneity being observer-dependent.
  • One participant argues against the notion that coordinate time is merely the proper time of an arbitrary clock, emphasizing that coordinate clocks do not always keep proper time.
  • Another participant agrees that coordinate time is an abstraction but contends that it is not limited to defining inertial reference frames, citing examples from everyday use.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of coordinate time and proper time, with no consensus reached on the implications of these definitions or their relationship to the initial question about time as change in space.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reveals limitations in understanding the definitions of time, particularly in distinguishing between coordinate and proper time, and the implications of these distinctions in different reference frames. Some assumptions about the nature of clocks and their measurements remain unresolved.

  • #31
DaleSpam said:
I prefer to think of time dilation as the ratio of coordinate time and proper time.
Since one of the coordinate times is a proper time in the standard time dilation scenario, that's equally correct.
 
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  • #32
ash64449 said:
what if a network of clocks are moving relative to another network of clocks?
If what you say is correct,then won't co-ordinate time of event measured by the one moving relative to observer change as proper time change?
Lets suppose we have two networks A and B. All the clocks in network A are inertial and at rest relative to each other. All the clocks in network B are inertial and at rest relative to each other. But each network is moving at a constant velocity relative to the other network.

If we pick one clock from network A and compare its proper time against the coordinate time of network B, we find A's proper time runs slow compared with B's coordinate time: one second of the A clock's proper time is longer than one second of B network coordinate time. (Remember, the beginning and end of the time period gets measured by a single A clock but two different synchronised B clocks.)

If we pick one clock from network B and compare its proper time against the coordinate time of network A, we find B's proper time runs slow compared with A's coordinate time: one second of the B clock's proper time is longer than one second of A network coordinate time. (Remember, the beginning and end of the time period gets measured by a single B clock but two different synchronised A clocks.)

(And in case you haven't noticed, the last two paragraphs are identical except that I've swapped "A" and "B".)

If we try to oversimply all of the above you get the apparently contradictory "A is slower than B and B is slower than A", but that's because we've failed to distinguish between coordinate time and proper time. The correct statements are

One B clock's proper time is slower than A network's coordinate time.
One A clock's proper time is slower than B network's coordinate time.​

I'm not sure if that answers your question.
 
  • #33
Why has my IP address been blocked? I had to use a proxy to access this forum. I am the one who posted the OP.
 
  • #34
aleemudasir said:
Why has my IP address been blocked? I had to use a proxy to access this forum. I am the one who posted the OP.
The IP address that you used to post the OP has not been blocked as far as I can tell, but it's close to a range of IP addresses that was blocked in February for spam. It's possible that your ISP assigned you an IP address from the blocked range today. I will discuss this with the other mentors. Please be patient while I do.

Do you know what IP address you tried to post from today? (If you've left the computer on, you should still have it). It would be interesting to know if it's one of the addresses that were blocked in February. You can tell me in a PM if you don't want to say it here.
 

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