How is maths separated from religion?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between mathematics, theoretical physics, and religion, particularly questioning how mathematical constructs like dark matter and dark energy relate to scientific verification and the scientific method. It explores the nature of understanding in theoretical physics and the implications of relying on mathematical models without experimental verification.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses concern that dark matter and dark energy are merely mathematical constructs used to address gaps in understanding, questioning their validity without experimental verification.
  • Another participant argues that dark matter and dark energy are valid explanations for observed phenomena, emphasizing that the scientific method and mathematics are essential for gradually improving our understanding of the universe.
  • There is a claim that the existence of poorly understood phenomena does not invalidate the scientific process, which relies on observation and mathematical modeling.
  • Some participants assert that the initial premise of the discussion mischaracterizes science, mathematics, and religion, suggesting that it undermines the potential for a productive conversation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the characterization of theoretical physics and its relationship to religion, with some feeling that the premise is flawed and others defending the validity of mathematical models in science.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding certain phenomena and the challenges of verifying theoretical constructs experimentally. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity and evolving nature of scientific inquiry.

Chinspinner
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This is not a religious diatribe, I am an agnostic leaning heavily towards atheism.

But, dark matter and dark energy are just equations used to close a gaping hole in our understanding. Singularities are not understood. Expansion is not understood.

But more importantly, theoretical physics often cannot be experimentally verified. If we are throwing the scientific method out of the window, how is this mathematical magic different from religion? Is this a cul-de-sac we have been trapped in too long? Or can it be verified without experiment?
 
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Chinspinner said:
But, dark matter and dark energy are just equations used to close a gaping hole in our understanding.

Nonsense. Both dark energy and dark matter are valid explanations for observed phenomena. The fact that they depend heavily upon math is no different than any modern theory.

Chinspinner said:
Singularities are not understood. Expansion is not understood.

The list of poorly understood phenomena is large and will probably never be zero. The key is that science leads to a gradual understanding of phenomena that were previously unknown or not understood at all and it does so through the use of math and the application of the scientific method.

Chinspinner said:
But more importantly, theoretical physics often cannot be experimentally verified. If we are throwing the scientific method out of the window, how is this mathematical magic different from religion? Is this a cul-de-sac we have been trapped in too long? Or can it be verified without experiment?

Comparing data from observations made through telescopes to various cosmological and astronomical models and eliminating those which cannot support the observations is a shining example of experimental verification. We may not know exactly what dark energy or dark matter is, but we know a great deal about what it isn't.
 
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The whole premise of this question mischaracterizes science, mathematics and religion. All three. How can a useful discussion follow from such a start?
 
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Vanadium 50 said:
The whole premise of this question mischaracterizes science, mathematics and religion. All three. How can a useful discussion follow from such a start?
Agreed. This topic is not appropriate for PF.

Thread closed.
 
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