How is Pion Annihilation Represented in a Feynman Diagram?

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on representing pion annihilation in a Feynman diagram, specifically the interaction π+ + π- → γ + γ. Participants clarify that pions consist of quark-antiquark pairs, with π+ made of an up and an anti-down quark, and π- made of an anti-up and a down quark. The consensus is that while Feynman diagrams can be drawn with quarks, it is simpler and more effective to represent the interaction using pions directly. The crossing of lines in the diagram does not indicate additional interactions, and the calculation is more straightforward when using pions rather than quarks.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Feynman diagrams and their purpose in particle physics.
  • Knowledge of quark composition, specifically for pions (π+ and π-).
  • Familiarity with particle interactions, including annihilation processes.
  • Basic principles of quantum field theory.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the construction and interpretation of Feynman diagrams in quantum field theory.
  • Learn about the quark model and the composition of mesons like pions.
  • Research the principles of particle annihilation and decay processes.
  • Explore the role of gluons in mediating interactions between quarks.
USEFUL FOR

Students of particle physics, physicists working with quantum field theory, and anyone interested in understanding the intricacies of Feynman diagrams and particle interactions.

Physicsphysics
Messages
17
Reaction score
2
π+ + π- → γ + γ

How do you represent this in a Feynman diagram showing the individual quark? I am very confused please help!

[Moderator's note: Moved from a technical forum and thus no template. Own effort below.]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
Do you know what the pions are made up of? If you don't, look it up. (both have 2 quarks)
 
Are you playing a game?
 
  • Skeptical
Likes   Reactions: Replusz
Replusz said:
Do you know what the pions are made up of? If you don't, look it up. (both have 2 quarks)
Yes, the pi plus is an up and an anti down, and anti up and down for the minus. The only way I can think to draw that is with the down and anti down annihilating into a photon and same for the up and anti up? I'm not sure if there's a way to do it as one diagram?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71
That is one diagram.
You can connect some quarks with a gluon if you like.
 
mfb said:
That is one diagram.
You can connect some quarks with a gluon if you like.

Um, so far I have this? Is this what you mean?
pion_annihilation.jpg
 
I would start the diagram with the individual pions as groups (first the two quarks of the pi-, then the two quarks of the pi+, or vice versa), even though that means two lines have to cross.
 
mfb said:
I would start the diagram with the individual pions as groups (first the two quarks of the pi-, then the two quarks of the pi+, or vice versa), even though that means two lines have to cross.

Right. Where the lines cross, I assumed another interaction happens? I found this while on a googling rampage
1587057404156.png

from https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/235366/feynman-diagram-pi0-pi0-rightarrow-pi-pi
If this person is right (I am far too inexperienced to tell that as is clear!) then by rotating this through 180° gets another valid diagram. Now, if this is all true, can the quark-antiquark pairs annihilate into a photon each, or do the π0s decay into two photons each like this?
1587058270775.png

Of course the other option is I have overcomplicated this horrendously, but from this fudge of a situation I have this:
1587058445238.png

Thank you for your patience 😅😅
 
Physicsphysics said:
Where the lines cross, I assumed another interaction happens?
No. The position of the lines is largely arbitrary and crossing lines don't mean anything.

There is no weak interaction here.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Physicsphysics
  • #10
Physicsphysics said:
How do you represent this in a Feynman diagram showing the individual quark?

Why do you want this? A Feynman diagram is a calculational tool, and this calxulation is much easier in terms of pions than quarks. (Probably no`t even possible with quarks, at least not if you want to get the right answer)
 
Last edited:
  • #11
Vanadium 50 said:
Why do you want this? A Feynman diagram is a calculational tool, and this xalxulation is much easier in terms of pions than quarks. (Probably no`t even possible with quarks, at least not if you want to get the right answer)
This is a task set by my professor and we're meant to show the quarks explicitly. We've been taught the basic rules with Feynman diagrams but honestly not much of the maths so this is almost entirely guesswork. It is quite frustrating with the hilariously superficial "understanding" I have atm 😅
 
  • #12
1587724185591.png

After some discussion, this was the conclusion... Is this correct?
 
  • #13
Physicsphysics said:
After some discussion, this was the conclusion... Is this correct?
mfb said:
There is no weak interaction here.

Are you reading what we write?
 
  • #14
Vanadium 50 said:
Are you reading what we write?
Ok then, I'll assume it's wrong. Thank you for your reply.
 
  • #15
Is this a possible solution
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4592.JPG
    IMG_4592.JPG
    53.6 KB · Views: 344
  • #16
mfb said:
There is no weak interaction here.
 
  • #17
Physicsphysics said:
Um, so far I have this? Is this what you mean?
View attachment 260762
You were closest with this. But you didn't start with the quarks grouped into the pions as mfb said in post #7. You don't need any more lines.
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
9K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K