How Long Do Christmas Tree Candles Last?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the burning time of Christmas tree candles, specifically focusing on the statistical modeling of the burn duration using random variables. Participants explore the distribution function and expected value of the minimum burn time among multiple candles, considering the uniform distribution of individual candle burn times.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the burn time of the tree is defined as the minimum of the individual candle burn times, represented as \(Y = \min \{X_1, X_2, \ldots, X_{12}\}\).
  • There is a discussion on the interpretation of the burn time being uniformly distributed between 60 and 80 hours, with some participants confirming that \(X_i \sim U([60,80])\).
  • Participants discuss the necessity of calculating \(P[Y \geq x]\) to derive the distribution function \(F_Y(y)\) and the expected value \(E[Y]\).
  • There is a query about the correct formulation for the probability expressions involving the minimum of independent random variables, with some participants suggesting both intersection and comma-separated formats.
  • One participant outlines the expected value calculation for \(Y\) and presents the corresponding density function derived from the distribution function.
  • Another participant confirms the correctness of the calculations presented regarding the expected value and density function.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach to modeling the problem and the calculations involved, but there are some uncertainties regarding the notation and specific probability expressions. No consensus is reached on the exact phrasing of the probability statements.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the notation used in probability expressions, particularly whether to use intersection symbols or commas. There is also a discussion about the implications of the uniform distribution assumption for the individual candle burn times.

mathmari
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Hey! :giggle:

The burning time of an electric candle is between $60$ and $80$ hours. It is considered to be continuously uniformly distributed over this period. A Christmas tree with $12$ candles (independent of the burning time), only lights up as long as all candles are working.
Determine, with intermediate steps, for the "burn time" of the tree, the distribution function and the average burn duration.
Hint : To do this, model the burning time of the individual candles using suitable independent and identically distributed random variables $X_1, X_2,\ldots , X_{12}$. The burn duration of the tree is then given by $Y = \min \{X_1, X_2,\ldots , X_{12}\}$. First determine $P [Y \geq x]$ and note that the minimum of $12$ real numbers is greater than or equal to $x$ when all $12$ numbers are greater than or equal to $x$.

Could you explain to me why $Y$ is defined as the minimum of all $X_i$'s ?
We have to calculate the distribution function $F_Y(y)$ and the average burn duration, i.e. the expected value $E[Y]$, right?

:unsure:
 
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Hey mathmari!

The minimum identifies the candle that stops working first. Once it stops, all candles stop. So the burning time Y of the tree is equal to that minimum. 🤔

First we have to identify the distribution functions of $X_i$, and then we should indeed find $f_Y$ and $EY$. 🤔
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
The minimum identifies the candle that stops working first. Once it stops, all candles stop. So the burning time Y of the tree is equal to that minimum. 🤔

First we have to identify the distribution functions of $X_i$, and then we should indeed find $f_Y$ and $EY$. 🤔

So $X_i$ describes the burning time of each candle ? The burn time of the tree is the time till the first candle stops burning, i.e. it is eual to the minimum of all the burning times of the candles, so it is described by $Y=\min \{X_1, \ldots , X_{12}\}$, right? :unsure:

Why do we have to determine $P[Y\geq x]$ ? If it is to calculate $F_Y(x)$ then we need $P[Y\leq x]$, or not? :unsure:

What does it mean that the burning time of an electric candle is between $60$ and $80$ hours ? Does itmean that $X_i\sim U([60,80])$ ? :unsure:
 
mathmari said:
So $X_i$ describes the burning time of each candle ? The burn time of the tree is the time till the first candle stops burning, i.e. it is eual to the minimum of all the burning times of the candles, so it is described by $Y=\min \{X_1, \ldots , X_{12}\}$, right?

Why do we have to determine $P[Y\geq x]$ ? If it is to calculate $F_Y(x)$ then we need $P[Y\leq x]$, or not?

What does it mean that the burning time of an electric candle is between $60$ and $80$ hours ? Does itmean that $X_i\sim U([60,80])$ ?
Yes to all. (Nod)
In particular it also says "continuously uniformly distributed", so indeed $X_i \sim U$.

It's a hint to determine $P[Y\geq x]$. And yes we would need $P[Y\leq x]$, which is equal to $1-P[Y\geq x]$. 🤔
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Yes to all. (Nod)
In particular it also says "continuously uniformly distributed", so indeed $X_i \sim U$.

It's a hint to determine $P[Y\geq x]$. And yes we would need $P[Y\leq x]$, which is equal to $1-P[Y\geq x]$. 🤔

So we have the following :
\begin{equation*}F_Y(x)=P[Y\leq x]=1-P[Y>x]=1-P[\min \{X_1, \ldots , X_{12}\}>x]=1-P[\{X_1>x\}\cap \{X_2>x\}\cap \ldots \cap \{X_{12}>x\}]\end{equation*} Is that correct so far? Or do we use $\cup$ instead of $\cap$ ? Or should it be with commas like at joint distributions? :unsure:
 
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Do we maybe have the following ?
\begin{align*}F_Y(x)&=P[Y\leq x]\\ & =1-P[Y>x]\\ & =1-P[\min \{X_1, \ldots , X_{12}\}>x]\\ & =1-P[X_1>x, \ X_2>x, \ldots , \ X_{12}>x]\\ & \ \overset{X_i\text{ independent }}{=}\ 1-P[X_1>x]\cdot P[X_2>x]\cdot \ldots \cdot P[X_{12}>x]\\ & =1-\left (1-P[X_1\leq x]\right )\cdot \left (1-P[X_2\leq x]\right )\cdot \ldots \cdot \left (1-P[X_{12}\leq x]\right )\\ & =1-\left (1-F(x)\right )\cdot \left (1-F(x)\right )\cdot \ldots \cdot \left (1-F(x)\right )\\ & =1-\left (1-F(x)\right )^{12}\\ & =\begin{cases}1-\left (1-0\right )^{12} & \text { if } x<60 \\ 1-\left (1-\frac{x-60}{80-60}\right )^{12} & \text { if } 60\leq x\leq 80 \\ 1-\left (1-1\right )^{12} & \text { if } x>80\end{cases}\\ & =\begin{cases}0 & \text { if } x<60 \\ 1-\left (1-\frac{x-60}{20}\right )^{12} & \text { if } 60\leq x\leq 80 \\ 1 & \text { if } x>80\end{cases} \end{align*}
:unsure:
 
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The average burn duration , i.e. the expected value of $Y$ is equal to \begin{equation*}E(Y) = \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} y f_Y(y) \, dy\end{equation*}
Thedensity is the derivative of the distribution function \begin{align*}f_Y(y)&=F_Y'(y)=\begin{cases}0 & \text { if } y<60 \\ -12\left (1-\frac{y-60}{20}\right )^{11}\cdot \left (-\frac{1}{20}\right ) & \text { if } 60\leq y\leq 80 \\ 0 & \text { if } y>80\end{cases}=\begin{cases}0 & \text { if } y<60 \text{ or } y>80\\ \frac{12}{20}\left (1-\frac{y-60}{20}\right )^{11} & \text { if } 60\leq y\leq 80 \end{cases}\\ & =\begin{cases}0 & \text { if } y<60 \text{ or } y>80\\ \frac{3}{5}\left (1-\frac{y-60}{20}\right )^{11} & \text { if } 60\leq y\leq 80 \end{cases}\end{align*}
Therefore \begin{align*}E(Y)& = \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} y f_Y(y) \, dy\\ & =\int_{-\infty}^{60} y f_Y(y) \, dy+\int_{60}^{80} y f_Y(y) \, dy+\int_{80}^{\infty} y f_Y(y) \, dy\\ & =\int_{-\infty}^{60} y \cdot 0 \, dy+\int_{60}^{80} y \cdot \frac{3}{5}\left (1-\frac{y-60}{20}\right )^{11} \, dy+\int_{80}^{\infty} y \cdot 0 \, dy\\ & =\frac{3}{5}\cdot \int_{60}^{80} y \cdot \left (1-\frac{y-60}{20}\right )^{11} \, dy\\ & =\frac{3}{5}\cdot \frac{4000}{39}= \frac{800}{13}\approx 61.5 \text{ hours }\end{align*} Is that correct? :unsure:
 
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It all looks correct to me. (Sun)

And I think we can use either commas inside the set of outcomes, or $\cap$ symbols between the sets of outcomes. 🤔
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
It all looks correct to me. (Sun)

And I think we can use either commas inside the set of outcomes, or $\cap$ symbols between the sets of outcomes. 🤔

Great! Thank you very much! (Sun)
 

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