Undergrad How many bits or bytes of information are present in 1 atom

[PeroK]

Yeah, as if he needed a PhD to do his his thought experiments

I'm sure it helped!

 

[Wolfenstein3d]

Wouldn't you need a photon with a wavelength approaching 0 to locate a particle to an exact point location of the center of mass?
The consensus when I asked the hup detail question on this forum in 2013 was that the hup was the speed limit on detailedness of a particle. Like 4 people concurred about that. Did something happen in between then and now?

 

[PeterDonis]

Wouldn't you need a photon with a wavelength approaching 0 to locate a particle to an exact point location of the center of mass?

You're assuming a "particle" like an electron is in fact a little billiard ball with a center of mass. It isn't.

The whole picture of the HUP being due to limitations of measurement (if you shoot a photon of short enough wavelength to pin down the position really precisely, it has so much momentum that it kicks the particle and makes its momentum uncertain) is not really correct.

when I asked the hup detail question on this forum in 2013

I'm unable to find this forum thread, so I can't comment on what was said there.

the hup was the speed limit on detailedness of a particle

I don't even know what this means. I suspect you have a garbled memory of whatever was actually said.

 

[Drakkith]

Yeah, as if he needed a PhD to do his his thought experiments

Of course he did! Without years of studying physics Einstein wouldn't have even known which thought experiments to think about, how to set them up, how physics would have worked in them, their consequences, etc. You can be absolutely certain that man needed the training and education he received while working on his PhD. After all, a PhD isn't just a sheet of paper (well, not usually). It represents the time and effort people spend learning their field. Do you need a PhD to understand physics at the level Einstein did? Certainly not. But if you're going to be spending years of your life learning physics to this extent, you might as well get something out of it that will let you get a job.

The consensus when I asked the hup detail question on this forum in 2013 was that the hup was the speed limit on detailedness of a particle. Like 4 people concurred about that. Did something happen in between then and now?

No, that answer was never correct if that's what the consensus came out as. As far as I understand it, the HUP puts constraints on measuring certain pairs of observables, such as position and momentum, preventing you from knowing both to infinite precision at the same time. If you choose only one of these to observe, you should be able to measure it to whatever precision you like.

 

[PeroK]

Of course he did! Without years of studying physics Einstein ...

It's the power of the myth. First, you learn that Einstein was a lowly patent clerk with no background in physics,who shook the scientific world with his humble thought experiments. And it's a great story.

Then you find out the man had a PhD and it's all a bit of a let down. I must admit I was very surprised, if not shocked, when I learned that. Like many people I had heard the myth first.

But, myths are not given up quite so readily by everyone.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Also i didnt see you disagree with anything i said other then

That's not how the forum works. You can't post incorrect statement after incorrect statement, and when one isn't immediately countered then conclude people must think it's correct.

An office clerk physicist who basically freestyled GR because it followed the way he thought things should work is pretty much equivalent to an armchair physicist. Not bad company tbh.

Comparing yourself to Einstein, albeit obliquely, is not likely to help. Especially as Einstein developed GR largely when he was at ETH. But ultimately you need to decide what you are here for. Are you trying to get questions answered? Or are you trying to promote a particular point of view. If the former, I would stop doing the latter.

 

[Wolfenstein3d]

That's not how the forum works. You can't post incorrect statement after incorrect statement, and when one isn't immediately countered then conclude people must think it's correct.

So your saying it was right for so many discoverers to be labeled heretics and sometimes stoned to death when they dared to question the traditional way of thinking?

You want to ostracize me even when the result of this will be a better

You seem to have the misconception that the HUP means the universe is discrete, not continuous. That's not the case. Position for a free particle is a continuous observable in standard QM, not a discrete one. The HUP doesn't change that.

As I mentioned before, there are speculations that spacetime might be discrete instead of continuous at the Planck scale, but those are just speculations.

Also, as has been discussed, what we know of black hole thermodynamics and the Bekenstein bound suggests that only a finite amount of information can be stored in a finite volume. But that has nothing to do with the HUP.
No, it doesn't. The HUP says that a quantum system's allowed states do not include certain kinds of states that classically would have been expected--for example, a state which has both an exact position and an exact momentum. But that is not the same as the allowed states being discrete or the information that can be in principle stored in the state being limited. It just means the continuous state space in QM is not the same as the continuous state space you would expect from classical physics.

As above, there are indeed reasons to think that only a finite amount of information can be stored in a system with a finite volume; but those reasons have nothing to do with the HUP. I've said this repeatedly now and you have not appeared to grasp it.
No. The HUP is not the same as "uncertainty about the location of each colored pixel". It has nothing to do with pixels. I've said this repeatedly, and others have said it as well, and you have not appeared to grasp it.

Theres actually some debate as to whether space is quantized Peter. Even with continuous space events can still occur in a quantized manner, Like the spinning wheel on the price is right. The wheel spins smoothly, but the point points in an all-or-nothing, quantized manner.

 

[Drakkith]

Thread locked for possible moderation.

 

[Drakkith]

So your saying it was right for so many discoverers to be labeled heretics and sometimes stoned to death when they dared to question the traditional way of thinking?

Oh, stop! Don't even try to compare yourself to people being labeled heretics by a non-scientific institution hundreds of years ago. It's just silly.

Even with continuous space events can still occur in a quantized manner, Like the spinning wheel on the price is right. The wheel spins smoothly, but the point points in an all-or-nothing, quantized manner.

So? This has nothing to do with what Peter was telling you. Since it seems you are more interested in arguing than actually learning, this thread will remain locked.