How much money do Physicists make?

[twofish-quant]

Money alone may not buy happiness but it can help a lot.

It can help. It can hurt. One way money hurts you is that once you make money, you find yourself in a social group that makes even more money, and you feel miserable that all of your friends make more money than you do.

One thing that I warn people that want to work in Wall Street, is prepare to feel more poor than you've ever felt before.

Physics, particularly theoretical, does not have the cheeriest financial prospects.

Utter rubbish. The career prospects for someone with a physics Ph.D. are as good as someone with an MBA or a Law degree.

You will probably not due as well in theoretical physics as you might in internal medicine or finance, and the monetary aspect should not be treated lightly.

You do realize that physics Ph.D.'s are a pretty good way into finance.

P.S. If I saw a someone running for political office had an education in advanced physics, I'd vote for them immediately regardless of any party affiliations whether Democrat, Republican, or National Socialist. Best of luck.

I wouldn't. Just because someone is smart doesn't mean that they can't be a total idiot.

 

[clope023]

One way money hurts you is that once you make money, you find yourself in a social group that makes even more money, and you feel miserable that all of your friends make more money than you do.

There's a little something called humility that such a person would do well to accept. If I could make a comfortable living I honestly wouldn't give a damn if my neighbor made 5K or whatever more than I did.

 

[twofish-quant]

If I could make a comfortable living I honestly wouldn't give a damn if my neighbor made 5K or whatever more than I did.

It's more like 500K. Also, it's not one person. If everyone on your block except for you made 500K more than you did, and displayed it in obvious ways, then you are going to feel poor. One problem is that if you are around people that are a LOT richer than you are, your definition of comfortable starts go change.

This happens a lot in NYC and the other major financial centers. If you want down Fifth Avenue, you'll see shops and services that are intended for people that make over $20M. People can and do get into their private jet, fly to NYC, spend $500 a meal, blow $50K on a shopping trip and then fly home to their estate in Barbados. Once you *see* people do that, then your definition of comfortable changes.

Also if you actually talk to people like this, they aren't going to be your neighbor or your friend. Something that you have to realize about investment bankers is that most of them are merely extremely highly paid bank tellers. If you are an investment banker that makes $200K, then a hyper-rich oil baron will look at and treat you like a waiter or a bank teller, because you are.

You might deal with it by being "proud to be poor", but it's something that you can't ignore. Personally, I deal with this by laughing at the absurdity of the hyper-rich and getting a little angry that people can make that much money (which is where Karl Marx comes in).

Something that I did when I was a grad student that helps a lot was that I wrote down a number. I figured that if I got $XXX, I'd declare victory, and I'd see myself as filthy rich. It turns out that I passed that number a long time ago, but that number keeps me sort of anchored.

 

[General_Sax]

This happens a lot in NYC and the other major financial centers. If you want down Fifth Avenue, you'll see shops and services that are intended for people that make over $20M. People can and do get into their private jet, fly to NYC, spend $500 a meal, blow $50K on a shopping trip and then fly home to their estate in Barbados. Once you *see* people do that, then your definition of comfortable changes.

lol, that's ridiculous.

 

[TMFKAN64]

Being ridiculous doesn't make it any less true.

 

[Niles]

You do realize that physics Ph.D.'s are a pretty good way into finance.

Does that work only for theoretical PhD's, or also experimental?

 

[clope023]

It's more like 500K. Also, it's not one person. If everyone on your block except for you made 500K more than you did, and displayed it in obvious ways, then you are going to feel poor. One problem is that if you are around people that are a LOT richer than you are, your definition of comfortable starts go change.

This happens a lot in NYC and the other major financial centers. If you want down Fifth Avenue, you'll see shops and services that are intended for people that make over $20M. People can and do get into their private jet, fly to NYC, spend $500 a meal, blow $50K on a shopping trip and then fly home to their estate in Barbados. Once you *see* people do that, then your definition of comfortable changes.

Also if you actually talk to people like this, they aren't going to be your neighbor or your friend. Something that you have to realize about investment bankers is that most of them are merely extremely highly paid bank tellers. If you are an investment banker that makes $200K, then a hyper-rich oil baron will look at and treat you like a waiter or a bank teller, because you are.

You might deal with it by being "proud to be poor", but it's something that you can't ignore. Personally, I deal with this by laughing at the absurdity of the hyper-rich and getting a little angry that people can make that much money (which is where Karl Marx comes in).
.

Oh please, don't pretend to know what's in my head, and I'm not being "proud" about being 'poor' (like middle class is poor now). Again what I am is humble (guess you didn't like that since you didn't bother to respond to that point too), and I don't really care if its 500K more that they're making than me either. I would agree that most of their lavish lifestyle is absurd, which is why I actually don't want to go into business of any kind, your oil-baron vs bank teller story is a prime example of it, its absolutely ridiculous social status nonsense. My definition of comfortable isn't going to change because I hang around rich people either.

Let me ask you something, why would you care about any of the things you mentioned? Why would you be so obsessed of keeping up with the Jonses when you know its stupid and unnecessary?

 

[General_Sax]

Being ridiculous doesn't make it any less true.

Meh, it's not a fact that one's definition of comfort changes.

However, it is true that the wealthy lifestyle is ridiculous.

 

[TMFKAN64]

Meh, it's not a fact that one's definition of comfort changes.

However, it is true that the wealthy lifestyle is ridiculous.

I'll agree that *some* people are immune to the effect... but studies have been done (yes, I know, handwave, handwave), and *most* people do judge themselves in comparison to the people around them.

And I'll certainly agree that the wealthy lifestyle is ridiculous.

 

[clope023]

I'll agree that *some* people are immune to the effect... but studies have been done (yes, I know, handwave, handwave), and *most* people do judge themselves in comparison to the people around them.

.

I'll agree with this, hopefully most people will find someone actually worthy to emulate (I don't consider the hyper-rich who spend their fortunes foolishly to be in this category).

 

[Readinglevel^]

I'm going through the same thing as the guy who started this thread, except I love physics and the medical field. I'm going in the medical field because of various reasons, but I'm still going to learn about physics on my own. I've already bought various books, like 2 about quantum physics. It's so awesome to read.

But if I have one thing to say, if you want money, don't go in the medical field. The money you make is basically **** compared to the work you have to go through. Pre-med and med school really screw with you. If you already don't want to go and you go into med school, good luck. Many people go in med school because they want to and are all extremely intelligent, but there's going to be many times where you're going to want to quit. My cousin, who's a heart surgeon (which is not better than any other surgeon, by the way), called his mom many times and was crying because of med school.

Sure, some people have it worse and some better, but med school is really hell. Many parents only think about money and not the work a doctor does. If you want money, the medical field is not for you.

 

[twofish-quant]

Let me ask you something, why would you care about any of the things you mentioned? Why would you be so obsessed of keeping up with the Jonses when you know its stupid and unnecessary?

Because I'm human, and I have irrational unconscious desires, that aren't fully under conscious control. I lot of life isn't what you *know*, but what you *feel*. Perhaps one good analogy is if you are in a restaurant on a diet and someone just puts a burger in front of you. You *know* the burger is bad for you, and you shouldn't eat it, but you have to fight your subconscious to not eat the burger. Now, you won't have that problem if you in a park, and you aren't surrounded by burgers all day.

Yes you can avoid eating the burger. The problem is that you are going to be highly stressed, and it's going to be even worse if you are surrounded by people that think that diets are stupid and it's *good* to eat lots of burgers.

Also, I have found that people do compete on different things. If you are around a lot of physicists, you quickly stop competing on the size of your car, but you do end up competing on which schools you go do, who has the most papers, how can crunch the most equations, etc. That sort of "keeping up with the Joneses" can be just as destructive.

 

[brno17]

You consider $90,000 low?

$90,000 is more than double the average kid.

if you're that obsessed with your paycheck, don't bother with physics. Post docs make $50,000 maximum (in general). Usually less. Tenured professors or industry physicists make $90,000 to $110,000.

I'm sorry, but you ahve no real understanding of money if you consider $90,000 low. Either that or you come from a horribly spoiled upbringing. Or both.

You are wrong!

$90,000 (in Canada)

Lets see.
90,000 x 0.64= 57 600 After tax

That is what you get after tax, I am not even mentioning living/car expenses.

At 90 000, your lucky if you end up with 10 000 in your pocket at the end of the year.

 

[brno17]

I want to become a physicist, I still think the money is very little but I really don't care(anymore)

Imagine doing something you love AND getting paid for it.

Thats like getting paid to go on vacation. Like getting marks for staying home on the weekend.

You get what I am trying to say?

 

[mathwonk]

It depends what you compare it to. let me give you some perspective. when i was 2 years old my folks bought a house in a reasonable residential nbhd for $8,000. My dad was then making probably 2-3 k a year. he felt the house was too expensive, and refused to help pay for it, so my mom opened a kindergarten in the basement and paid it completely off in 3 years. That was in 1944 (WW2), and houses were at a premium.

Now my house in a similar modest residential nbhd would cost over 500k, in a recession. So the same ratio would be if I were making 125k-165k a year, and thought it was not enough. And also if my mom were able to generate 170k a year profit with a basement kindergarten.

So 90k a year may seem hard to realize, but it is relatively a lot less than a typical middle class family made 65 years ago.

when you think about salary, don't think about what you need as a student for beer money. think about what you need as a parent paying taxes, tuition, mortgages, travel, food, cars, insurance, vacations, healthcare,...

 

[Sindaena]

Nope. It's the economic structure of the market. I'd like to teach "Intro to Astronomy" I'm probably perfectly competent to teach "Intro to Astronomy." It's just that without a way of turn that class into money, no one is going to take it.

I know that this is a pretty old comment in a much older thread, but... there is a growing cottage industry of offering classes to homeschoolers, many via internet. Most internet classes run only $400-$500 per student per year so it;s definitely not a way to get rich, or even necessarily make living wage, but it is possible to hang out and internet shingle and teach classes, particularly in math and hard sciences. Granted, unfortunately, that the largest part of the market denies some important fundamentals of science, there are a fair number of secular homeschoolers unhappy with the materials and classes available to them.

 

[twofish-quant]

At 90 000, your lucky if you end up with 10 000 in your pocket at the end of the year.

The same goes true with NYC. You have a marginal 45% tax rate, and rate for an apartment for a family is $2500/month.

A lot of whether something is high or low depends on where you live.

 

[General_Sax]

You are wrong!

$90,000 (in Canada)

Lets see.
90,000 x 0.64= 57 600 After tax

That is what you get after tax, I am not even mentioning living/car expenses.

At 90 000, your lucky if you end up with 10 000 in your pocket at the end of the year.

Are you talking about income tax? I don't think you would be paying 64% on 90 000...

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html

 

[Ryker]

He's saying you pay 36%, not 64%, on average, which seems to be in line with the tables you linked.

 

[RBNYC2]

Guys, don't get me wrong. I am just not after the money. If only was then I wouldn't bother on making this thread. I keep telling my parents that it is better to do a job you enjoy than the money but they keep saying it is better to have money.

There a couple of reasons why I myself want more money. One reason is that I want to go into politics later in life and you have to have lots of money to be sucessful in that line. Secondly I want a better life than my parent. My father makes on average $112,000 an year as a small business owner, so that is why I judge $90,000 a bit lower. It probably is not bad pay at all, so just because I found out most theoretical physicists maker around that much it doesn't mean becoming that profession is out of my idea.

What if you were to find a major discovery as an theoretical physicist such as a way to travel time ec.t ect. Wouldn't that boose your pay up? There is so much to discover in this line work so it is very likelly I will discover something big. Won't it booste your pay?

"What if you were to find a major discovery as a theoretical physicist such as a way to travel time"

Well, I think the best thing to do in your case is to analyze the two career paths side by side. If you discovered how to travel time, that would probably bump up your salary at least $10K, so you would just be at the 6-figure line, if you're using $90K as a baseline salary. However, if you factor in the time it would take to make this discovery (assuming you're really motivated, you may be able to discover time travel in 5 years, give or take), then you may have to deal with at least 5 years of making $90K. So, disregarding the time value of money, we're talking about wasting $50,000 on being the theoretical physicist that discovers time travel. In my opinion, that's really not worth it, since 50K can get you a lot of sweet things these days--I mean c'mon, you could have a 3D tv in every room for that much...

If you couldn't detect any sarcasm in this post, then I assure you there is an overwhelming amount of it.

 

[galib20]

Hi! I am from India and a doctor. I am adding some case studies for you to take decision.

1. The all India IIT JEE topper for the year 2011, took up computer science & eng. He has decide to pursue physics after completing his B Tech(called BS in US).

Implication: You can move into applied physics after your BS in several engineering fields including Electrical, electronics(they are separate in India), computer science.

 

[Antiphon]

Hi! I am from India and a doctor. I am adding some case studies for you to take decision.

1. The all India IIT JEE topper for the year 2011, took up computer science & eng. He has decide to pursue physics after completing his B Tech(called BS in US).

Implication: You can move into applied physics after your BS in several engineering fields including Electrical, electronics(they are separate in India), computer science.

Could you please tell us: how much money does an Indian doctor make in a year? And the EE engineer? Thank you.

 

[galib20]

for MD/MS starts at 60K a year median would be 400K for physicians and 1000K for surgeons in superspecialities

 

[Churchill]

You want a better life than your parents? $112,000 a year is a good salary. Not many people get to earn that much. If your parents struggle then they must be really bad with money and that's probably why they're pushing you to take a better paid job... They probably assume you'll be as terrible with money as they are, assuming you were raised with a silver spoon ( Guessing you are if you look down your nose at $112,000/y ).

Do what YOU want. Your parents won't be around forever and you need to live your life the way you want. If you bend over backwards to satisfy the needs of others all the time then you're going to live a pretty dull life, even if it's a dull life in luxury.

Besides, if you want to earn money then go into accounting or banking. I have 3 friends that graduated within 2 years of each other in accounting and they're already making close to $100,000.

But yeah, $90,000 is a lot of money. As long as you don't waste it like your parents must, it will go a long way.

My last job paid in the region of $135,000 and I didn't know what to do with it all. Life's what you make of it and your career will be a big part of it. Do what you want to do, because when you've woken up annoyed at the prospect of having to go to work again day after day after day, you'll wish you did what interests you.

 

[galib20]

What does Mr Churchill do?

 

[galib20]

for MD/MS starts at 60K a year median would be 400K for physicians and 1000K for surgeons in superspecialities

But not all doctors are this successful, and only some top earners will get these figures, as the system is private practice based. But of course, if you can open your own facility, you will earn a lot more.

 

[jtbell]

My father makes on average $112,000 an year as a small business owner,

Silverbackman posted that nearly seven years ago. After inflation in the meantime, it's probably more like $140,000 to $150,000 now. Or maybe he went bankrupt in the Great Recession.

In any event, what a particular salary is "worth" to you depends on your family background, the type of lifestyle you currently live or aspire to, and where you live (which country, city, etc.).

Even in the US, $150,000 per year "feels" a lot different depending on whether you live in Manhattan, elsewhere in metro NYC, San Francisco Bay area, Chicago, Schenectady New York, Des Moines Iowa, Greenville South Carolina, etc. Also on things like whether you "need" to buy a new car every three years, or keep them until they fall apart; whether you live in a small but comfortable three-bedroom house in a sixty-year-old neighborhood, or in a McMansion in a new development; or whether your idea of a fun vacation is a ski resort in Aspen, eating in 4-5 star restaurants, or a road trip to some scenic/interesting part of the country, staying in budget motels and splitting a foot-long sub at Subway for lunch.

 

[galib20]

Regional differences

I was at University of Missouri, Columbia for a year. Cigarette packs were priced differently and there were major price differenced between columbia and NYC.

 

[Vanadium 50]

You are wrong!

$90,000 (in Canada)

Lets see.
90,000 x 0.64= 57 600 After tax

That is what you get after tax, I am not even mentioning living/car expenses.

At 90 000, your lucky if you end up with 10 000 in your pocket at the end of the year.

95% of Canadians make less than $89,000 a year.

 

[eddotman]

Looking at statcan (http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil21a-eng.htm), the average income for an individual after taxes is somewhere on the order of $30 000. If you're making $90 000, that's pretty damn good.

 

[sweetpotato]

$90,000 is very good money if you are single and live alone. If that same person got married, bought a house and had 3 kids, and their spouse didn't work outside the home, obviously $90,000 would hardly be luxurious.

 

[Vanadium 50]

It is still more than what 95% of the people make.

 

[sweetpotato]

It is still more than what 95% of the people make.

Of course, but 95% of Americans don't own a house and support a spouse and 3 kids as in my example. My point is how "good" a salary is depends on what your life circumstances are.

 

[maurice74]

In Italy, I can survive with a spouse and 2 little kids earning a gross of 50k eur, which means 25k net. I have not to pay for the house. Considering escaping to USA, which salary must I search? 100k dollars as a gross is enough? (optics and experimental physics field)

 

[grendle7]

Guys, don't get me wrong. I am just not after the money. If only was then I wouldn't bother on making this thread. I keep telling my parents that it is better to do a job you enjoy than the money but they keep saying it is better to have money.

There a couple of reasons why I myself want more money. One reason is that I want to go into politics later in life and you have to have lots of money to be sucessful in that line. Secondly I want a better life than my parent. My father makes on average $112,000 an year as a small business owner, so that is why I judge $90,000 a bit lower. It probably is not bad pay at all, so just because I found out most theoretical physicists maker around that much it doesn't mean becoming that profession is out of my idea.

What if you were to find a major discovery as an theoretical physicist such as a way to travel time ec.t ect. Wouldn't that boose your pay up? There is so much to discover in this line work so it is very likelly I will discover something big. Won't it booste your pay?

What if you majored in physics, and then went into medical physics for grads?

Or you could major in medical physics, right off the bat.

The University of Colorado, Denver, offers a BS in either Physics or Medical Physics. So far, their main differences are that once you get into your 300 and 400 levels, physics is more applied to biology and medical trades, like biophysics.

For example, the physics major will take Electromagnetism while the medical physics major will take bioelectromagnetism.

Look f'yo' self.

Summary of Both Majors:

http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/CLAS/Departments/physics/Programs/BachelorOfScience/Pages/BachelorofScience.aspx

Course Requirements for the Regular Physics Major:

http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/CLAS/Departments/physics/Programs/BachelorOfScience/Pages/majorPure.aspx

Course Requirements for the Medical Physics major:

http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/CLAS/Departments/physics/Programs/BachelorOfScience/Pages/majorMedical.aspx


I'm not trying to sell you off to UCD (it's effing expensive), but just letting you know that you might be able to do both physics and the annoying, little, medical side your parents want. I'm also a Coloradan...so that's why I mentioned UCD.

xD

 

[vedderfan94]

Success is waking up every morning and being able to do whatever you want, and if that thing you want to do happens to be your job, then you have made it.

Wow, this is brilliant :)

 

[biophysicist]

If you wanted to, you COULD just go into Applied Physics, go on to work for Wall Street, and just make twice as much as a doctor? As you said, normal doctors make about $200,000 a year (after several years of experience). With the same experience, you could be making $400,000 on Wall Street (probably MUCH more than that to be honest, depending on how efficient you are). A double major in theoretical and applied physics sounds VERY possible. Have fun with wormholes and the like while in college, but then when you go out into the real world and try to get a job, you could go to be a Quant (Quantitative Analyst) or maybe a consultant. That's what I thought of as one of the many plans I have had for my future.

 

[chill_factor]

If you wanted to, you COULD just go into Applied Physics, go on to work for Wall Street, and just make twice as much as a doctor? As you said, normal doctors make about $200,000 a year (after several years of experience). With the same experience, you could be making $400,000 on Wall Street (probably MUCH more than that to be honest, depending on how efficient you are). A double major in theoretical and applied physics sounds VERY possible. Have fun with wormholes and the like while in college, but then when you go out into the real world and try to get a job, you could go to be a Quant (Quantitative Analyst) or maybe a consultant. That's what I thought of as one of the many plans I have had for my future.

if you actually looked at applied physics curriculum then it's clear that you're going to be nowhere near finance if you did what their curriculum and research asked for. are you in college yet?

 

[biophysicist]

if you actually looked at applied physics curriculum then it's clear that you're going to be nowhere near finance if you did what their curriculum and research asked for. are you in college yet?

Quantitative Analysis doesn't have as much to do with money as some of the other fields. Most of Quantitative Analysis is being good with numbers in general. I have done my research and a lot of Wall Street workers have a strong Physics background, especially in Applied Physics because of the way they think. But I learned at RPI that Physics can actually get people really close to Wall Street... Well I already knew this but RPI sort of confirmed it. You just have to be willing to learn the money part, and the Physics looks really good. In recent years, majors are becoming less and less important. In fact, college in general is becoming less important. My best friend's father didn't even go to college and makes millions per year. Well that isn't my point, but the major alone isn't what dictates your career choices. It's your entire background... If you majored in Biology in college, and you had an internship with an artist, then you could end up drawing leaves and bugs if that's what you enjoy... while someone else with a Biology major who took some courses in programming could end up just keeping records for some sort of health insurance company. It depends more in your background and overall goals, as well as your marketability, rather than your major. I say pick a major that you find most desirable, but make it closely related enough to at least some of your intended career paths so that you still have a shot at the career. One course could make the difference between a computer programmer and particle physicist researcher for MIT... or the difference between a game designer and an engineer...
ok... do I talk too much? It's 4:52AM and I just said all this, and I don't even know if half of it makes sense... but oh well

 

[chill_factor]

Quantitative Analysis doesn't have as much to do with money as some of the other fields. Most of Quantitative Analysis is being good with numbers in general. I have done my research and a lot of Wall Street workers have a strong Physics background, especially in Applied Physics because of the way they think. But I learned at RPI that Physics can actually get people really close to Wall Street... Well I already knew this but RPI sort of confirmed it. You just have to be willing to learn the money part, and the Physics looks really good. In recent years, majors are becoming less and less important. In fact, college in general is becoming less important. My best friend's father didn't even go to college and makes millions per year. Well that isn't my point, but the major alone isn't what dictates your career choices. It's your entire background... If you majored in Biology in college, and you had an internship with an artist, then you could end up drawing leaves and bugs if that's what you enjoy... while someone else with a Biology major who took some courses in programming could end up just keeping records for some sort of health insurance company. It depends more in your background and overall goals, as well as your marketability, rather than your major. I say pick a major that you find most desirable, but make it closely related enough to at least some of your intended career paths so that you still have a shot at the career. One course could make the difference between a computer programmer and particle physicist researcher for MIT... or the difference between a game designer and an engineer...
ok... do I talk too much? It's 4:52AM and I just said all this, and I don't even know if half of it makes sense... but oh well

Have you ever read a quantitative finance paper?