How much money do Physicists make?

[Skrew]

Also at $100K you are making enough money so that your primary concern doesn't have to be how much money you make. The starting salary for a physics Ph.D. on Wall Street is $120K salary + $30 bonus. With three to five years of experience, you are looking at a total comp of $250K and if you make managing director, you could make $1M/year.

Now there are trade offs here. You have to move to NYC, and you have to learn a lot of management/finance/political skills, but you aren't dooming yourself to poverty with theoretical physics.

What exactly do you do?

I find it odd that theoretical physicists would be employed in large number in the finance sector.

 

[essecks]

What exactly do you do?

I find it odd that theoretical physicists would be employed in large number in the finance sector.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=376191

Pretty interesting thread.

(Not sure if I got the right thread, there's heaps of them. But you get the idea.)

 

[Saladsamurai]

<snip> ... The starting salary for a physics Ph.D. on Wall Street is $120K salary + $30 bonus.

Wait wait wait...are you trying to tell me that I could make $120K PLUS a thirty dollar bonus?!

 

[twofish-quant]

What exactly do you do?

Quantitative developer at a large financial firm.

I find it odd that theoretical physicists would be employed in large number in the finance sector.

It's numerical modeling. Your typical investment bank has about a hundred or so Ph.D. physicists on staff. It's really a tiny fraction of people in the bank, but considering that there aren't that many Ph.D. physicists...

 

[epicurean]

If I am a physicist and I want to teach "intro to astronomy", I can't practically speaking do that. The problem is that there is basically no demand for courses that don't offer college credit, so if I want to teach intro to astronomy, I have to go to University of Phoenix or a community college, sign up as an adjunct, have ten students pay UoP $1000 each, I get $1000 of that, and $4000 goes to put on commercials on TV, $1000 goes to overhead, and $4000 goes to shareholders of the Apollo Group.

It's modern day sharecropping. If you can think of an viable economic model in which physicists can start their own business being physicists, that would be really, really cool. But I've haven't quite been able to figure one better than "sell my brains to the highest bidder, save money, teach physics."

Nope. It's the economic structure of the market. I'd like to teach "Intro to Astronomy" I'm probably perfectly competent to teach "Intro to Astronomy." It's just that without a way of turn that class into money, no one is going to take it.

Start your own university. It's really not that hard, and with the prices like UoP charges, it's not like you are required to keep your profit margins at Walmart levels. There's plenty of room for competition in the market. Do you have your masters or PhD? If so, talk to me about this possibility.

 

[Majorlowe]

Also at $100K you are making enough money so that your primary concern doesn't have to be how much money you make. The starting salary for a physics Ph.D. on Wall Street is $120K salary + $30 bonus. With three to five years of experience, you are looking at a total comp of $250K and if you make managing director, you could make $1M/year.

Now there are trade offs here. You have to move to NYC, and you have to learn a lot of management/finance/political skills, but you aren't dooming yourself to poverty with theoretical physics.

My father who works as a physicist in NASA'S JPL lab makes about $220,000 a year. He's been working there for 20 years, he said when he started off he made about $108,000 per year. I myself have a bachelors in physics and currently work for the U.S Government my start off pay is $65,000 a year and I'm just a Lab Tech really cause I don't have a Phd. When I get my masters though it will jump to about $75,000 and with a Phd it will jump to about $90-$100,000 a year cause I work as a civilian physicist for the U.S Department of Defense. If I scored a job with NASA I may start off a bit more than my fathers was, cause his was 20 years ago. He thinks I may start off at around $115,000 a year. So it can depend where you work, the Census says though that an avg physicist makes around $110,000-$130,000 a year starting off with a Phd. Government jobs seem to pay better then working for private companies though. And sometimes if you start your own research the government will fund you hundreds of thousands of dollars, even millions if you're on to something.

 

[Majorlowe]

And sorry I didn't mean to quote you twofish-quant hehe. I was going to say I agreed with what you were saying, you have it right but then it turned into me having a whole paragraph.

 

[Norman]

My father who works as a physicist in NASA'S JPL lab makes about $220,000 a year. He's been working there for 20 years, he said when he started off he made about $108,000 per year. I myself have a bachelors in physics and currently work for the U.S Government my start off pay is $65,000 a year and I'm just a Lab Tech really cause I don't have a Phd. When I get my masters though it will jump to about $75,000 and with a Phd it will jump to about $90-$100,000 a year cause I work as a civilian physicist for the U.S Department of Defense. If I scored a job with NASA I may start off a bit more than my fathers was, cause his was 20 years ago. He thinks I may start off at around $115,000 a year. So it can depend where you work, the Census says though that an avg physicist makes around $110,000-$130,000 a year starting off with a Phd. Government jobs seem to pay better then working for private companies though. And sometimes if you start your own research the government will fund you hundreds of thousands of dollars, even millions if you're on to something.

Just remember your numbers for JPL are about 20% higher than average due to cost of living. Still not bad, but it is a bit misleading.

Also, research grant values are not equivalent to salary. Not even close.

 

[Ryker]

Source: http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2...ge-student-or-grad-or-professor/?ref=economy"

I thought this was an interesting look at the salaries professors in various fields have.

 

[AlexES16]

Hello from El Salvador. I am in electrical engineering but what i like is physics. I am gona change to physics. But living in a 3rd world country I am kinda afraid of dying by starvation.
With our socilist universitie i will pay very little for the education. Any have any experience as a 3rd world country?

 

[twofish-quant]

Money alone may not buy happiness but it can help a lot.

It can help. It can hurt. One way money hurts you is that once you make money, you find yourself in a social group that makes even more money, and you feel miserable that all of your friends make more money than you do.

One thing that I warn people that want to work in Wall Street, is prepare to feel more poor than you've ever felt before.

Physics, particularly theoretical, does not have the cheeriest financial prospects.

Utter rubbish. The career prospects for someone with a physics Ph.D. are as good as someone with an MBA or a Law degree.

You will probably not due as well in theoretical physics as you might in internal medicine or finance, and the monetary aspect should not be treated lightly.

You do realize that physics Ph.D.'s are a pretty good way into finance.

P.S. If I saw a someone running for political office had an education in advanced physics, I'd vote for them immediately regardless of any party affiliations whether Democrat, Republican, or National Socialist. Best of luck.

I wouldn't. Just because someone is smart doesn't mean that they can't be a total idiot.

 

[clope023]

One way money hurts you is that once you make money, you find yourself in a social group that makes even more money, and you feel miserable that all of your friends make more money than you do.

There's a little something called humility that such a person would do well to accept. If I could make a comfortable living I honestly wouldn't give a damn if my neighbor made 5K or whatever more than I did.

 

[twofish-quant]

If I could make a comfortable living I honestly wouldn't give a damn if my neighbor made 5K or whatever more than I did.

It's more like 500K. Also, it's not one person. If everyone on your block except for you made 500K more than you did, and displayed it in obvious ways, then you are going to feel poor. One problem is that if you are around people that are a LOT richer than you are, your definition of comfortable starts go change.

This happens a lot in NYC and the other major financial centers. If you want down Fifth Avenue, you'll see shops and services that are intended for people that make over $20M. People can and do get into their private jet, fly to NYC, spend $500 a meal, blow $50K on a shopping trip and then fly home to their estate in Barbados. Once you *see* people do that, then your definition of comfortable changes.

Also if you actually talk to people like this, they aren't going to be your neighbor or your friend. Something that you have to realize about investment bankers is that most of them are merely extremely highly paid bank tellers. If you are an investment banker that makes $200K, then a hyper-rich oil baron will look at and treat you like a waiter or a bank teller, because you are.

You might deal with it by being "proud to be poor", but it's something that you can't ignore. Personally, I deal with this by laughing at the absurdity of the hyper-rich and getting a little angry that people can make that much money (which is where Karl Marx comes in).

Something that I did when I was a grad student that helps a lot was that I wrote down a number. I figured that if I got $XXX, I'd declare victory, and I'd see myself as filthy rich. It turns out that I passed that number a long time ago, but that number keeps me sort of anchored.

 

[General_Sax]

This happens a lot in NYC and the other major financial centers. If you want down Fifth Avenue, you'll see shops and services that are intended for people that make over $20M. People can and do get into their private jet, fly to NYC, spend $500 a meal, blow $50K on a shopping trip and then fly home to their estate in Barbados. Once you *see* people do that, then your definition of comfortable changes.

lol, that's ridiculous.

 

[TMFKAN64]

Being ridiculous doesn't make it any less true.

 

[Niles]

You do realize that physics Ph.D.'s are a pretty good way into finance.

Does that work only for theoretical PhD's, or also experimental?

 

[clope023]

It's more like 500K. Also, it's not one person. If everyone on your block except for you made 500K more than you did, and displayed it in obvious ways, then you are going to feel poor. One problem is that if you are around people that are a LOT richer than you are, your definition of comfortable starts go change.

This happens a lot in NYC and the other major financial centers. If you want down Fifth Avenue, you'll see shops and services that are intended for people that make over $20M. People can and do get into their private jet, fly to NYC, spend $500 a meal, blow $50K on a shopping trip and then fly home to their estate in Barbados. Once you *see* people do that, then your definition of comfortable changes.

Also if you actually talk to people like this, they aren't going to be your neighbor or your friend. Something that you have to realize about investment bankers is that most of them are merely extremely highly paid bank tellers. If you are an investment banker that makes $200K, then a hyper-rich oil baron will look at and treat you like a waiter or a bank teller, because you are.

You might deal with it by being "proud to be poor", but it's something that you can't ignore. Personally, I deal with this by laughing at the absurdity of the hyper-rich and getting a little angry that people can make that much money (which is where Karl Marx comes in).
.

Oh please, don't pretend to know what's in my head, and I'm not being "proud" about being 'poor' (like middle class is poor now). Again what I am is humble (guess you didn't like that since you didn't bother to respond to that point too), and I don't really care if its 500K more that they're making than me either. I would agree that most of their lavish lifestyle is absurd, which is why I actually don't want to go into business of any kind, your oil-baron vs bank teller story is a prime example of it, its absolutely ridiculous social status nonsense. My definition of comfortable isn't going to change because I hang around rich people either.

Let me ask you something, why would you care about any of the things you mentioned? Why would you be so obsessed of keeping up with the Jonses when you know its stupid and unnecessary?

 

[General_Sax]

Being ridiculous doesn't make it any less true.

Meh, it's not a fact that one's definition of comfort changes.

However, it is true that the wealthy lifestyle is ridiculous.

 

[TMFKAN64]

Meh, it's not a fact that one's definition of comfort changes.

However, it is true that the wealthy lifestyle is ridiculous.

I'll agree that *some* people are immune to the effect... but studies have been done (yes, I know, handwave, handwave), and *most* people do judge themselves in comparison to the people around them.

And I'll certainly agree that the wealthy lifestyle is ridiculous.

 

[clope023]

I'll agree that *some* people are immune to the effect... but studies have been done (yes, I know, handwave, handwave), and *most* people do judge themselves in comparison to the people around them.

.

I'll agree with this, hopefully most people will find someone actually worthy to emulate (I don't consider the hyper-rich who spend their fortunes foolishly to be in this category).

 

[Readinglevel^]

I'm going through the same thing as the guy who started this thread, except I love physics and the medical field. I'm going in the medical field because of various reasons, but I'm still going to learn about physics on my own. I've already bought various books, like 2 about quantum physics. It's so awesome to read.

But if I have one thing to say, if you want money, don't go in the medical field. The money you make is basically **** compared to the work you have to go through. Pre-med and med school really screw with you. If you already don't want to go and you go into med school, good luck. Many people go in med school because they want to and are all extremely intelligent, but there's going to be many times where you're going to want to quit. My cousin, who's a heart surgeon (which is not better than any other surgeon, by the way), called his mom many times and was crying because of med school.

Sure, some people have it worse and some better, but med school is really hell. Many parents only think about money and not the work a doctor does. If you want money, the medical field is not for you.

 

[twofish-quant]

Let me ask you something, why would you care about any of the things you mentioned? Why would you be so obsessed of keeping up with the Jonses when you know its stupid and unnecessary?

Because I'm human, and I have irrational unconscious desires, that aren't fully under conscious control. I lot of life isn't what you *know*, but what you *feel*. Perhaps one good analogy is if you are in a restaurant on a diet and someone just puts a burger in front of you. You *know* the burger is bad for you, and you shouldn't eat it, but you have to fight your subconscious to not eat the burger. Now, you won't have that problem if you in a park, and you aren't surrounded by burgers all day.

Yes you can avoid eating the burger. The problem is that you are going to be highly stressed, and it's going to be even worse if you are surrounded by people that think that diets are stupid and it's *good* to eat lots of burgers.

Also, I have found that people do compete on different things. If you are around a lot of physicists, you quickly stop competing on the size of your car, but you do end up competing on which schools you go do, who has the most papers, how can crunch the most equations, etc. That sort of "keeping up with the Joneses" can be just as destructive.

 

[brno17]

You consider $90,000 low?

$90,000 is more than double the average kid.

if you're that obsessed with your paycheck, don't bother with physics. Post docs make $50,000 maximum (in general). Usually less. Tenured professors or industry physicists make $90,000 to $110,000.

I'm sorry, but you ahve no real understanding of money if you consider $90,000 low. Either that or you come from a horribly spoiled upbringing. Or both.

You are wrong!

$90,000 (in Canada)

Lets see.
90,000 x 0.64= 57 600 After tax

That is what you get after tax, I am not even mentioning living/car expenses.

At 90 000, your lucky if you end up with 10 000 in your pocket at the end of the year.

 

[brno17]

I want to become a physicist, I still think the money is very little but I really don't care(anymore)

Imagine doing something you love AND getting paid for it.

Thats like getting paid to go on vacation. Like getting marks for staying home on the weekend.

You get what I am trying to say?

 

[mathwonk]

It depends what you compare it to. let me give you some perspective. when i was 2 years old my folks bought a house in a reasonable residential nbhd for $8,000. My dad was then making probably 2-3 k a year. he felt the house was too expensive, and refused to help pay for it, so my mom opened a kindergarten in the basement and paid it completely off in 3 years. That was in 1944 (WW2), and houses were at a premium.

Now my house in a similar modest residential nbhd would cost over 500k, in a recession. So the same ratio would be if I were making 125k-165k a year, and thought it was not enough. And also if my mom were able to generate 170k a year profit with a basement kindergarten.

So 90k a year may seem hard to realize, but it is relatively a lot less than a typical middle class family made 65 years ago.

when you think about salary, don't think about what you need as a student for beer money. think about what you need as a parent paying taxes, tuition, mortgages, travel, food, cars, insurance, vacations, healthcare,...

 

[Sindaena]

Nope. It's the economic structure of the market. I'd like to teach "Intro to Astronomy" I'm probably perfectly competent to teach "Intro to Astronomy." It's just that without a way of turn that class into money, no one is going to take it.

I know that this is a pretty old comment in a much older thread, but... there is a growing cottage industry of offering classes to homeschoolers, many via internet. Most internet classes run only $400-$500 per student per year so it;s definitely not a way to get rich, or even necessarily make living wage, but it is possible to hang out and internet shingle and teach classes, particularly in math and hard sciences. Granted, unfortunately, that the largest part of the market denies some important fundamentals of science, there are a fair number of secular homeschoolers unhappy with the materials and classes available to them.

 

[twofish-quant]

At 90 000, your lucky if you end up with 10 000 in your pocket at the end of the year.

The same goes true with NYC. You have a marginal 45% tax rate, and rate for an apartment for a family is $2500/month.

A lot of whether something is high or low depends on where you live.

 

[General_Sax]

You are wrong!

$90,000 (in Canada)

Lets see.
90,000 x 0.64= 57 600 After tax

That is what you get after tax, I am not even mentioning living/car expenses.

At 90 000, your lucky if you end up with 10 000 in your pocket at the end of the year.

Are you talking about income tax? I don't think you would be paying 64% on 90 000...

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html

 

[Ryker]

He's saying you pay 36%, not 64%, on average, which seems to be in line with the tables you linked.

 

[RBNYC2]

Guys, don't get me wrong. I am just not after the money. If only was then I wouldn't bother on making this thread. I keep telling my parents that it is better to do a job you enjoy than the money but they keep saying it is better to have money.

There a couple of reasons why I myself want more money. One reason is that I want to go into politics later in life and you have to have lots of money to be sucessful in that line. Secondly I want a better life than my parent. My father makes on average $112,000 an year as a small business owner, so that is why I judge $90,000 a bit lower. It probably is not bad pay at all, so just because I found out most theoretical physicists maker around that much it doesn't mean becoming that profession is out of my idea.

What if you were to find a major discovery as an theoretical physicist such as a way to travel time ec.t ect. Wouldn't that boose your pay up? There is so much to discover in this line work so it is very likelly I will discover something big. Won't it booste your pay?

"What if you were to find a major discovery as a theoretical physicist such as a way to travel time"

Well, I think the best thing to do in your case is to analyze the two career paths side by side. If you discovered how to travel time, that would probably bump up your salary at least $10K, so you would just be at the 6-figure line, if you're using $90K as a baseline salary. However, if you factor in the time it would take to make this discovery (assuming you're really motivated, you may be able to discover time travel in 5 years, give or take), then you may have to deal with at least 5 years of making $90K. So, disregarding the time value of money, we're talking about wasting $50,000 on being the theoretical physicist that discovers time travel. In my opinion, that's really not worth it, since 50K can get you a lot of sweet things these days--I mean c'mon, you could have a 3D tv in every room for that much...

If you couldn't detect any sarcasm in this post, then I assure you there is an overwhelming amount of it.