How to derive momentum operator in position basis via its definition?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the momentum operator in the position basis, exploring the mathematical representations of Hermitian operators and their implications in quantum mechanics. Participants examine the necessary conditions and properties that operators must satisfy in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the initial information provided does not suffice to derive a specific operator, as it only outlines general properties applicable to any operator in the position basis.
  • Others suggest that representations for specific operators, like the momentum operator, should be derived based on the physical properties expected of these operators as observables.
  • A participant emphasizes the importance of including the momentum basis in the derivation process and notes the need to understand the relationship between the momentum and position representations.
  • There is a discussion about the meaning of the equation ##\hat{A}|x\rangle=A(x)|x\rangle##, with some questioning its clarity when applied to operators in the position representation.
  • Another participant points out that the operator's behavior with respect to the basis is crucial for understanding its application, contrasting it with the momentum basis where the action of the momentum operator is more straightforward.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the sufficiency of the initial information for deriving the momentum operator, with no consensus reached on the clarity or meaning of certain equations related to operator actions in different bases.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the derivation process may depend on specific assumptions about the operators and their representations, which remain unresolved in the discussion.

LightPhoton
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Let the representation of a Hermitian Operator in some basis ##x## be
$$\hat A\equiv A(x)$$
and let
$$\psi(x)=\langle x\vert\psi\rangle$$

Then we define

$$A(x)\,\psi(x)=\langle x\vert\hat A\vert\psi\rangle$$

This is the Wikipedia article that mentions this.

From here how do we derive the momentum operator (or any other) on a position basis?
 
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LightPhoton said:
From here how do we derive the momentum operator (or any other) on a position basis?
You don't. The information given is not enough to specify any particular operator. All it is telling you is general properties that any operator will satisfy in the position basis.
 
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LightPhoton said:
how do we derive the momentum operator
Generally representations for specific operators are derived by looking at the physical properties that the operators are expected to satisfy as observables. See, for example, Chapters 3 (particularly section 3.4) and 4 (particularly section 4.1) of Ballentine.
 
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LightPhoton said:
Let the representation of a Hermitian Operator in some basis $x$ be
$$\hat A\equiv A(x)$$
and let
$$\psi(x)=\langle x\vert\psi\rangle$$

Then we define

$$A(x)\,\psi(x)=\langle x\vert\hat A\vert\psi\rangle$$
You are missing a key ingredients here, you are missing the
$$\langle x|\hat{A}|\psi\rangle=\int\mathrm dx' \langle x|\hat{A}|x'\rangle\langle x'|\psi\rangle=\int\mathrm dx' \langle x|\hat{A}|x'\rangle\psi(x')$$
If ##\hat{A}## has a nice way to represent it in position space then you can write ##\hat{A}|x\rangle=A(x)|x\rangle## so you get
$$\langle x|\hat{A}|\psi\rangle=\int\mathrm dx' \langle x|x'\rangle A(x')\psi(x')=\int \mathrm d x' \delta(x-x')A(x')\psi(x')=A(x)\psi(x)$$

Edit: this is important if you want to derive the momentum operator. The crucial step consist in introducing a momentum base between ##\hat{A}## and ##|\psi\rangle## but then you would also need to know what is ##\langle p|x\rangle##.
 
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pines-demon said:
You are missing a key ingredients here, you are missing the
$$\langle x|\hat{A}|\psi\rangle=\int\mathrm dx' \langle x|\hat{A}|x'\rangle\langle x'|\psi\rangle=\int\mathrm dx' \langle x|\hat{A}|x'\rangle\psi(x')$$
If ##\hat{A}## has a nice way to represent it in position space then you can write ##\hat{A}|x\rangle=A(x)|x\rangle## so you get
$$\langle x|\hat{A}|\psi\rangle=\int\mathrm dx' \langle x|x'\rangle A(x')\psi(x')=\int \mathrm d x' \delta(x-x')A(x')\psi(x')=A(x)\psi(x)$$

Edit: this is important if you want to derive the momentum operator. The crucial step consist in introducing a momentum base between ##\hat{A}## and ##|\psi\rangle## but then you would also need to know what is ##\langle p|x\rangle##.
Thanks, really appreciate the derivation!
 
pines-demon said:
##\hat{A}|x\rangle=A(x)|x\rangle##
Actually, now that I think about it, what does this equation even mean? We are acting an operator in position representation (let's say ##\hat p=-i\hbar\partial_x##) on a ket which is in Hilbert space.
 
LightPhoton said:
Actually, now that I think about it, what does this equation even mean? We are acting an operator in position representation (let's say ##\hat p=-i\hbar\partial_x##) on a ket which is in Hilbert space.
Ah you see that's why I am saying that it makes sense only if the operator behaves well with the basis. It is not so clear what ##\hat{P}|x\rangle## does or if it even makes sense but in momentum basis it does the following ##\hat{P}|p\rangle=p|p\rangle##
 
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