How to Estimate Air Leakage into a Vacuum Vessel?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on estimating air leakage into a vacuum vessel, considering parameters such as external pressure, internal pressure, pumping speed, and the duration of the leak. The context includes both theoretical and practical aspects of vacuum systems.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that leakage can be estimated by measuring the pressure rise during the leak interval, proposing a calculation based on a 10 mBar rise leading to an estimated 48 liters of air leaking in over 6 hours.
  • Another participant clarifies that there was a stable pressure of 10 mBar during the 6 hours and corrects the pumping speed to 130 m³/hour, leading to a revised estimate of air leakage using the formula: ((pumping speed)*(duration))/100.
  • Concerns are raised about pump efficiencies, noting that rough pumps may not achieve a good vacuum and that outgassing from the vessel could also affect leakage estimates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the accuracy of the initial estimates and the impact of pump efficiencies and outgassing. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise estimation of leakage.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about pump efficiencies and the effects of outgassing, which are not fully explored in the discussion.

Zrq
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Question:
How can I estimate the amount of air that leakes into a vacuum vessel. I know the pressure outside the vessel (1020 mBar), the pressure achieved in the vessel (10 mBar), the pumping speed of the vacuum pump (400 cubic metres per hour) and the duration of the leaking (6 hours). Volume of the vessel = 4800 litres.
 
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The amount of leakage is measured by the pressure rise during the 6hr leak interval.
If you had a 10mBar rise during that period, you had about 1/100th of the volume leak in, so about 48 liters in 6 hrs, or about 8 liters/hr.
 
etudiant said:
The amount of leakage is measured by the pressure rise during the 6hr leak interval.
If you had a 10mBar rise during that period, you had about 1/100th of the volume leak in, so about 48 liters in 6 hrs, or about 8 liters/hr.

Thank you for answer. I should have made clear that there was a stable pressure of 10 mBar during the 6 hours. During this time several pumps were operating. Turns out I overestimated the pumping speed of the system. It is in fact 130 m3/hour. I now believe the estimate to be: ((pumping speed)*(duration))/100 so (130*6)/100≈1*101 m3.
 
Zrq said:
Thank you for answer. I should have made clear that there was a stable pressure of 10 mBar during the 6 hours. During this time several pumps were operating. Turns out I overestimated the pumping speed of the system. It is in fact 130 m3/hour. I now believe the estimate to be: ((pumping speed)*(duration))/100 so (130*6)/100≈1*101 m3.


In practice, you want to be pretty cautious about pump efficiencies.
Rough pumps that are used initially to pump down the installation can't produce a good vacuum, although they should get to maybe 10**-2 mB.
A 4800 liter vessel is good size and may have elements that outgas in a vacuum, which might become a factor.
 

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