Li-Ion Battery Quality Report

[DaveE]

OK, I guess I'm only buying name brand batteries now.

Lumafield makes CT scanners for industrial engineering and production testing. They've released a report on the quality of Li-Ion batteries that they surveyed (18650 cells), which I thought was really interesting.

https://7802750.fs1.hubspotusercont...Guides/Batteries/Lumafield Battery Report.pdf

 

[berkeman]

Yikes!

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Given the fire risk of lithium, there is little reason to go cheap.

 

[Ken Fabian]

Regulated and enforced safety standards seem necessary, ie the cheap counterfeits should be detected and rejected. De-funding regulatory agencies and industry 'self regulation' looks short sighted; I suspect the insurance industry favors enforced standards as will most of the major manufacturers.

A lot of cheap batteries have exaggerated capacity as well, so not such a bargain as might seem even before considering expected working life and fire risks.

Not sure it is useful to go by averages for determining our risks; whilst I may have some items that may contain poor quality batteries (a cheap electric shaver comes to mind) most of the batteries come from reputable sources. The largest (solar batteries and electric ride on mower) are LFP type that are less flammable. Seems possible we'll see a shift to sodium chemistry - they are coming onto the market and whilst not having the storage density of NMC are not much short of LFP and CATL is claiming very long working life (5,000 to 10,000 cycles) and superior low temperature operation.

But there are a lot of batteries already in most homes with more all the time and just by their numbers the risks rise - and not only from battery faults; chargers for them as well as the things they power have fire risks.

 

[Rive]

Given the fire risk of lithium, there is little reason to go cheap.

On the other hand, only the cheap batteries keeping some product prices low (and this is not only about this particular battery format - the low quality and very liberal parameters of cheap batteries is a quite widespread issue).

 

[russ_watters]

I'd been thinking of buying a new charger and batteries for AA devices. Looking online, it doesn't appear that any major manufacturer sells rechargeable Li-Ion batteries. So now I have to decide if I want a no-name or NiMh.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Regulated and enforced safety standards seem necessary, ie the cheap counterfeits should be detected and rejected

That video is truly scary but what to do about the problem? I imagine the CT technology will always be expensive; even for small items. I have an appointment for a CT scan on Saturday and I looked up the probable cost. It seems the NHS will be paying quite a few hundred quid for it. A scaled-down version for small components would be much cheaper but it would still be a significant part of the cost of a cell. A lot of money to be made for a certified service as it would be used by every industry you can think of.

One possible upside could be the cost of having your pet scanned if small scanners become more popular and lower cost. But don't hold your breath.

 

[Rive]

I'd been thinking of buying a new charger and batteries for AA devices. Looking online, it doesn't appear that any major manufacturer sells rechargeable Li-Ion batteries.

Erm... As far as I know there is just no suitable Li-based chemistry for the usual voltages associated with the AA format.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Erm... As far as I know there is just no suitable Li-based chemistry for the usual voltages associated with the AA format.

Warnings all over instructions for using portable equipment fitted with AA cells. They say their units will not work 'properly' with rechargeable.

 

[Rive]

They say their units will not work 'properly' with rechargeable.

Erm... That's a bit different.
Li-ion cells (rechargeable) works around 3.7V
Standard AA (Zinc-Carbon, non-rechargeable) is around 1.5V
There is 'high energy' AA, with Li content but still not rechargeable at nominal 1.5V, though during usage they run a bit lower than standard cells
Rechargeable AA NiMh cell are around 1.2V

So Li-ion based rechargeable is just too high voltage (without electronics)

Rechargeable AA is lower voltage and indeed, some electronics may complain about low voltage, but still, in AA format NiMh is the only practical/cheap way. Many modern equipment tolerates this voltage (at least in normal circumstances - at winter it is a royal PITA).

 

[russ_watters]

There is 'high energy' AA, with Li content but still not rechargeable at nominal 1.5V, though during usage they run a bit lower than standard cells
Rechargeable AA NiMh cell are around 1.2V

So Li-ion based rechargeable is just too high voltage (without electronics)

That's interesting but there are a bunch of no-name 1.5V AA rechargeable Li-Ion batteries/chargers for sale on Amazon. Any thoughts on how they might work? This one does appear to have a circuit board on top, and lists its capacity in mWh instead of mAh. So maybe that's what it is.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D4M581B3?tag=pfamazon01-20

 

[Rive]

Any thoughts on how they might work?

They are the 'not without electronics' ones. A small Li-ion battery (at 3.7V) with a charging electronics and a step-down converter (to provide the 1.5V) is fitted in the AA case.
Some has dedicated charger, some has USB slot or similar, or an USB plug hidden under a cap... Pretty creative, actually

It's a cheap niche (exactly the one where you can expect a trash battery inside with overstated parameters), so don't expect a quality product. But if you don't need much peak current, then it's a passable 'forever' replacement.
(I won't hold my breath for fire safety, though...)

Ps.: just to be clear, these are devices, not exactly batteries. At least, in my book.

 

[Herman Trivilino]

That's interesting but there are a bunch of no-name 1.5V AA rechargeable Li-Ion batteries/chargers for sale on Amazon. Any thoughts on how they might work?

I've had pretty good luck with them. Not so with the 18650's though. They seem to have declined in quality in the last few years.

I stay away from the highest capacity ones, as it seems that high capacity rating is valid for just one cycle.

A good quality charger is a must. Those cheap ones will overcharge and destroy even a good battery very quickly.

In my experience nickel batteries won't get you out of this mess. There is a strict exercise regimen for a new NiMH. Not all of them survive it and the cheap ones never experience it.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Well, THANKS guys. You have just managed to convince me that my battery power is going to cost me a fair bit more in the future. Back to clockwork toys, I think.

 

[WWGD]

I won't be able to read this until tomorrow, sorry, nor use my battery. The Li On will sleep tonight.

 

[Ken Fabian]

I imagine the CT technology will always be expensive; even for small items. I have an appointment for a CT scan on Saturday and I looked up the probable cost. It seems the NHS will be paying quite a few hundred quid for it. A scaled-down version for small components would be much cheaper but it would still be a significant part of the cost of a cell. A lot of money to be made for a certified service as it would be used by every industry you can think of.

Well, THANKS guys. You have just managed to convince me that my battery power is going to cost me a fair bit more in the future. Back to clockwork toys, I think.

The requirements for certification for safety (or other quality) standards don't require every item to be tested. I'm not familiar with the particulars but random sampling within production runs seems to be the way it is done. May not even require independent testing on a regular basis; it could be done in-house with specified lab methods and providing the results to regulatory authorities and only occasional outside checks, not sure. It does add some cost but so do product recalls and getting sued.

I did a time in a plastic extrusion factory that made electricity cable channels that had to be certified; the last thing we wanted was the loss of that certification by allowing sub standard products to get sold. Fed to the grinders for the plastic to be re-used - in products not requiring certification.

 

[sophiecentaur]

The requirements for certification for safety (or other quality) standards don't require every item to be tested.

The 'good manufacturers' establish a reputation for taking care of that sort of thing. It's one aspect of 'peace of mind' that is worth paying for. Soft spanner (wrench) jaws and bad drill chucks are a nuisance but a fire in your car is worse.