How to find the Atomic Structure of a Constituent

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the charge density of tap water, exploring the methods to calculate it based on the number of protons and electrons in various dissolved constituents. Participants are examining theoretical definitions and practical implications of charge density in the context of water's neutrality and the presence of ions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to find the charge density of tap water by calculating the difference between total protons and total electrons in various dissolved elements.
  • Another participant asserts that water is neutral, suggesting that the overall charge density is zero.
  • A different participant acknowledges that while H2O is neutral, the presence of ions in the water implies there could be a charge density, even if minimal.
  • Some participants discuss the concept of neutrality in solutions, indicating that the amounts of positive and negative ions are balanced.
  • One participant questions the definition of charge density being used, indicating it is unusual and asks for clarification on its source.
  • A later reply references a textbook that defines charge density in a specific way, expressing dissatisfaction with the explanation and seeking alternative definitions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the concept of charge density in tap water, with some asserting it is zero due to neutrality, while others argue that the presence of ions complicates this notion. There is no consensus on the definition or calculation method for charge density.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference a specific textbook definition of charge density that may not align with conventional understandings, indicating potential limitations in the definitions being discussed.

Shelnutt2
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For a project/idea I'm working on, I need to find the charge density of tap water. I've read that this can be determined by simply subtracting total protons minus total electrons. I've got a list of elements that are in the water, but I'm not 100% sure how to find the exact number of electrons and protons for everything. Elements such as Calcium are easy to find, but then Bicarbonate? I've googled and can't seem to find it. If someone can point me in the right direction, it would be great!

Constituent:

Calcium
Magnesium
Sodium
Potassium
Bicarbonate
Sulfate
Chloride
Fluoride
Bromide
Silica
Nitrite
Ammonia
Phosphorus (dissolved)
Aluminum
Arsenic
Barium
Beryllium
Boron
Cadmium
Chromium
Cobalt
Iron (dissolved)
Lead
Lithium
Manganese
Selenium
Strontium
Vanadium


Thanks
 
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Shelnutt2 said:
For a project/idea I'm working on, I need to find the charge density of tap water. I've read that this can be determined by simply subtracting total protons minus total electrons.

Water is neutral, so the charge density is zero.
 
Borek said:
Water is neutral, so the charge density is zero.

H2O is neutral, but with all the ions in the water, there has to be something. Even an insignificant amount would still mean something to me.
 
Solutions are neutral as well. Exactly the same amount of positive and negative ions are dissolved.
 
Shelnutt2 said:
For a project/idea I'm working on, I need to find the charge density of tap water. I've read that this can be determined by simply subtracting total protons minus total electrons...

That's a very unusual definition. Where did you see it?
 
chemisttree said:
That's a very unusual definition. Where did you see it?
I got it from a textbook I have. The section talks about tachmen and uses a Tortoises-Hares fable to explain it. Really crummy section, the rest of the book is okay. So I was just going off of the one sentence I quoted below.

Visscher said:
They defined a cell scalar field p(c,t), the electric charge density, obtained from the net charge in the cell (positive minus negative) by dividing by the volume dt(c) = dr^3.

http://books.google.com/books?id=LZ...s+and+Electrodynamics&client=firefox-a&pgis=1

Do you have any better "definitions" on how to calculate charge density? This is the only thing I am stumped on.