How to graph Earth's path?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Annie_28
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SUMMARY

This discussion focuses on graphing Earth's movement in space, particularly in relation to its orbit around the Sun and the motion of the Milky Way galaxy. The key challenge identified is the vast difference in scale between Earth's orbit and the galaxy, making it difficult to accurately depict these movements simultaneously. The conversation highlights that all reference frames are valid and emphasizes the importance of zooming in and out in animations to convey these complex motions. Additionally, it notes that while absolute positions in space cannot be defined, comoving coordinates can be used to represent Earth's motion relative to the expansion of the universe.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of basic astrophysics concepts, including orbits and galactic motion.
  • Familiarity with animation techniques that involve scaling and zooming.
  • Knowledge of comoving coordinates in cosmology.
  • Experience with graphic design software for creating animations.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research "comoving coordinates in cosmology" to understand how to represent motion in an expanding universe.
  • Explore animation software like Blender or After Effects for creating complex visualizations of astronomical movements.
  • Study the "scale of the universe" to grasp the relative sizes and distances involved in depicting Earth's motion.
  • Investigate "galactic motion and velocities" to gain insights into how different celestial bodies move relative to each other.
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for artists, animators, and educators interested in accurately depicting astronomical movements, as well as astrophysicists and enthusiasts seeking to understand the complexities of Earth's motion within the cosmos.

Annie_28
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Hi, is there a way to graph earths movement is space - I mean to combiane all the individual movements up to movements of our galaxy? I suspect the main problem would be a point of refrence but is there a way to just pick one?

Im an artist and in my project I want to include an animation of the mentioned path, but I dont want to stop only with the solar system orbiting the galaxy, I want to go as far as I can with it.


Thanks for your help.
 
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From a scientific point of view, the motion of Earth in our solar system, i.e. its motion or path if you like relative to the Sun and other planets, can for all practical purposes be considered independent from the motion of our solar system relative to the nearby stars. Depicting the actual path Earth has taken relative to, say, the center our galaxy with orientation fixed towards far away galaxies, would be like trying to depicting how one particular hair on your head moves when you walk around a ship sailing in the Atlantic relative to a point somewhere in the middle of the Pacific.

Perhaps you can elaborate what your animation is aiming to show or illustrate? Such animations often employ zooming in or out to illustrate the huge scale differences where the precise location of Earth relative to the Sun in indiscernible at the galaxy level, but perhaps you are looking for something else?
 
Annie_28 said:
Hi, is there a way to graph earths movement is space - I mean to combiane all the individual movements up to movements of our galaxy? I suspect the main problem would be a point of refrence but is there a way to just pick one?

Im an artist and in my project I want to include an animation of the mentioned path, but I dont want to stop only with the solar system orbiting the galaxy, I want to go as far as I can with it.


Thanks for your help.
All reference frames are equally valid. Note that the scale of the Earth's orbit round the Sun is extremely small compared to the scale of the galaxy. On a galactic scale, the Earth is at the same place as the Sun.
 
That's what I was thinking - the difference in scale is so big that the earths movement around the sun would simply disappear when showing the movement of our galaxy relative to other galaxies. But zooming in and out could solve this problem a little bit. Im just wondering if all of this movements are even possible to graph even on their own. For example the movement of our galaxy relative to local group? Do we know how this movement "looks"?

I know my questions may sound a bit stupid but bare in mind that l'm just an artist, trying my best to understand and I'm very thankful for any professional help.
 
The problem is the scale. The Earth is about 0.04 light seconds across. Its orbit is about 48 light seconds across and the galaxy is about 3 million million light seconds across. Any scale that shows one will show nothing of the rest.
 
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Ibix said:
The problem is the scale. The Earth is about 0.04 light seconds across. Its orbit is about 48 light seconds across and the galaxy is about 3 million million light seconds across. Any scale that shows one will show nothing of the rest.
Yes, but in animation in can be overcame with zooming in and out. The other thing I'm worried about is different velocities.
 
Annie_28 said:
Yes, but in animation in can be overcame with zooming in and out. The other thing I'm worried about is different velocities.
Yes, the Earth orbits the Sun every year, but the Sun orbits the galactic centre every x years. Where x is a lot!

PS 230 million years, apparently!
 
Next step up, the Milky way is traveling roughly in the direction of Hydra, at 361 km/sec relative to the Local group of galaxies as a whole, and then our local group is traveling at 600 km/sec towards the Virgo Cluster.
 
  • #10
Janus said:
Next step up, the Milky way is traveling roughly in the direction of Hydra, at 361 km/sec relative to the Local group of galaxies as a whole, and then our local group is traveling at 600 km/sec towards the Virgo Cluster.
How these movements are in relation to eachother? Is there a way to determine how far our galaxy is from where it's been for example 20 years ago? Do we know exact vector values or is it just not possible to calculate? (Point of refrence being Local Supercluster)
 
  • #11
Annie_28 said:
How these movements are in relation to eachother? Is there a way to determine how far our galaxy is from where it's been for example 20 years ago? Do we know exact vector values or is it just not possible to calculate? (Point of refrence being Local Supercluster)
There are no markers to identify absolute points in space. The points are defined by your arbitrary choice of reference frame. In the Earth's frame of reference it remains at the same point in space.

All motion in relative. There is no concept in physics of absolute position or absolute velocity.

That said, a lot of cosmogy uses comoving coordinates. That would give you the Earth's motion relative to the expansion of space itself. Even then, comoving coordinates are simply useful. The laws of physics hold in all reference frames.
 

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