The solar system and the Coriolis effect

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Coriolis effect and its implications for the solar system, particularly concerning the moon's motion. Participants explore whether the Coriolis effect should be considered in the context of celestial bodies moving within a rotating system, such as the Earth and the sun.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the Coriolis effect influences the moon's path, suggesting it should cause an apparent deviation that is not observed.
  • Another participant argues that historical figures like Copernicus and Newton did not need to consider the Coriolis effect because they used non-rotating systems where the effect does not apply.
  • A participant estimates that, if the Coriolis effect were applied to the sun-Earth-moon model, the moon would move away from the Earth at an average speed of 260 km/h, suggesting a spiral path orbit.
  • Some participants challenge the validity of the initial estimation, asserting that the Coriolis effect cannot be applied in a non-rotating frame, leading to claims of errors in the estimation process.
  • There is a call for further estimation to demonstrate the claimed errors, but others reiterate that the Coriolis effect is not applicable in non-rotating frames.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the applicability of the Coriolis effect to the solar system. Some argue it should be considered, while others maintain that it is irrelevant in the context of non-rotating frames. The discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the historical context of the Coriolis effect's discovery and its implications for understanding motion in rotating systems. There are unresolved questions about the assumptions underlying the estimations made regarding the moon's motion.

Moises
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TL;DR
Has the coriolis effect on the celestial mechanics of the solar system ever been considered?
After concluding an investigation about the coriolis effect, I wondered how this phenomenon affected the solar system and in particular the moon. Since the moon is a body that moves within the rotating system formed by the sun and the earth, an apparent deviation in the moon's path would be expected but this does not happen, that is, the moon seen from the Earth behaves as if it was not affected by this effect. So far I did not find bibliography dealing with this subject but it is known that the coriolis effect was not discovered until 1835, therefore neither Copernicus, nor Galileo, nor Kepler, nor Newton knew about the existence of this phenomenon of movement, which will occur provided there is a body in motion within a system with angular velocity. Nor does Einstein seem to have addressed this problem.
I can estimate the vector and the position in time of a body in motion under the coriolis effect and the surprising thing is that when I consider this effect in the sun-earth-moon model, it results in the moon moving away from the Earth to an average speed of 260Km / h describing a spiral path orbit. In the case of the Earth and the planets, these would also be in the sun-center rotation system of the galaxy. And in this case the same would happen with the Earth's orbit, only that the speed at which it would move away from the sun would be 1Km / h (which is not much in a short period of time but in a decade it would be very considerable). Nor is this phenomenon observed. That to my understanding suggests two quite controversial possibilities
 
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Moises said:
So far I did not find bibliography dealing with this subject but it is known that the coriolis effect was not discovered until 1835, therefore neither Copernicus, nor Galileo, nor Kepler, nor Newton knew about the existence of this phenomenon of movement, which will occur provided there is a body in motion within a system with angular velocity. Nor does Einstein seem to have addressed this problem.

They didn't need to consider it because they used non-rotating systems and there is no coriolis effect.

Moises said:
I can estimate the vector and the position in time of a body in motion under the coriolis effect and the surprising thing is that when I consider this effect in the sun-earth-moon model, it results in the moon moving away from the Earth to an average speed of 260Km / h describing a spiral path orbit.

That means there is an error in your estimation.
 
DrStupid said:
They didn't need to consider it because they used non-rotating systems and there is no coriolis effect.

The coriolis effect is an intrinsic phenomenon of movement that manifests in every body or particle that moves in a rotating frame of reference and the solar system is a rotating frame of reference (although analytically it can be studied as a system at rest, the effect coriolis is a real effect, that is, it cannot be removed from the analysis. See the general acceleration equation)

That means there is an error in your estimation.

I hope you can make your estimation to show that my estimation have an error
 
Moises said:
I hope you can make your estimation to show that my estimation have an error

He already told you your error: you are trying to apply the Coriolis effect in a non-rotating frame, but in a non-rotating frame there is no Coriolis effect. So the "estimate" of the effect in a non-rotating frame is zero.
 
The OP is based on a misunderstanding. Thread closed.
 

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