How to make home-made hand sanitizer

[Eskus]

Hi guys, sorry for the uneducated question I'm about to ask.

Hand sanitiser is impossible to come by in my city with everything that's going on and i require some for my workplace. My understanding is the active ingredient is essentially alcohol, so i have decided to try make some sanitiser myself.

I have used roughly:
- 65% methylated spirits (this may be called denatured alcohol in your country)
- 35% water
- <1% eucalyptus oil (to hide the smell)

It is in a spray bottle and i noticed it has seperated. It's around 65% cloudy liquid down the bottom. 35% clear above with the oil floating on top.

Do you think this would still be effective as hand sanitiser if shaken before use? I just want to make sure some sort of chemical reaction hasn't occurred that would neutralise the alcohol and cause it to no longer be effective as sanitiser.

Thanks in advance :)

 

[jedishrfu]

I can't say whether your recipe is good or not but I did find a few recipes that should do the trick if you don't have soap readily available. The key problem is your DIY solution may be ineffective or too harsh on your skin either case is not good as described in the CNET article below:

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/why-you-shouldnt-make-your-own-hand-sanitizer/

and a possible recipe provided you have the right ingredients with the right type of alcohol being key:

https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-make-hand-sanitizer/

NOTE: For any follow-on posts, you must NOT provide your personal recipes for consideration. For any recipes you do provide, you must provide a more credible reference as I did above and NOT my friend is a pharmacist and he said do this...

 

[Eskus]

Hi Jedishrfu,

Thanks for your reply and sorry for breaking the rules regarding posting a recipe without citing a source.

The recipe of water and methylated spirits is a common hand sanitiser recipe getting mentioned in our media here in Australia, so I didn't even consider citing a source. Here is a well respected scientist mentioning anything with 60% plus alcohol will do the job:


My main concern and question was regarding the chemistry and whether it's possible/likely that adding eucalyptus oil could have made the alcohol ineffective or turned it into a different state (sorry that may not be the correct terminology).

I have tried the recipe on the wired website you provided a link to (using the aloe vera gel) and the final result was quite offensive lol. That's why I decided to simplify the ingredients and just use water and methylated spirits.

 

[jedishrfu]

I think the concern here is the methylated spirits which we called denatured alcohol:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol

where ingredients are added to make the alcohol usable in industry but toxic to drink.

In fact, there was a war with bootleggers and the US Govt where they were using industrial use alcohol to make their liquor and people were dying because to the additives ordered by the US Govt:

https://www.vox.com/2014/8/8/5975605/alcohol-prohibition-poison

 

[chemisttree]

Please don’t use methylated spirits. It has methanol which is toxic. If you must do this, only use USP grade alcohol or food grade alcohol like Everclear.

I posted a recipe from Youtube in another thread that used isopropyl alcohol but now I’m not sure the Forum approves of it.

 

[chemisttree]

Eucalyptus oil shouldn’t be a problem for effectiveness but it is probably the last thing I would add. I would add the contents of a vitamin E capsule to soothe dry skin like the manufacturers do.

Eucalyptus oil is fatal at the rate of 3.5mL orally. I wouldn’t want some unknown amount absorbing through my skin. Might call your hand sanitizer something like “Killer-tizer.”
Yikes!

 

[Eskus]

Eucalyptus oil should’t be a problem for effectiveness but it is probably the last thing I would add. I would add the contents of a vitamin E capsule to soothe dry skin like the manufacturers do.

Eucalyptus oil is fatal at the rate of 3.5mL orally. I wouldn’t want some unknown amount absorbing through my skin. Might call your hand sanitizer something like “Killer-tizer.”
Yikes!

I have put about 0.1mL of eucalyptus oil in 1L of product. It's simply for the smell. I don't think this will be dangerous. Eucalyptus oil is commonly used as a decongestant, cleaning product, additive when doing laundry etc etc. I think you're more likely to absorb a higher dose through other means. Sure it's toxic in extreme doses, but consuming 3.5mL would be almost impossible as you'd vomit instantly.

 

[Eskus]

Please don’t use methylated spirits. It has methanol which is toxic. If you must do this, only use USP grade alcohol or food grade alcohol like Everclear.

I posted a recipe from Youtube in another thread that used isopropyl alcohol but now I’m not sure the Forum approves of it.

This would be the preferred option, but these ingredients are also scarce here.

 

[256bits]

Please don’t use methylated spirits. It has methanol which is toxic. If you must do this, only use USP grade alcohol or food grade alcohol like Everclear.

I posted a recipe from Youtube in another thread that used isopropyl alcohol but now I’m not sure the Forum approves of it.

Home remedies can be dangerous due to the gross misinformation that can travel out there to an unsuspecting public, not really their fault as they are looking for a solution.
Take this episode, which may not be singularly particular.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/nearl...king-methanol-to-fight-off-covid-19-1.4870674

The poisonings come as fake remedies spread across social media in Iran, where people remain deeply suspicious of the government after it downplayed the crisis for days before it overwhelmed the country

 

[Eskus]

Please don’t use methylated spirits. It has methanol which is toxic. If you must do this, only use USP grade alcohol or food grade alcohol like Everclear.

I posted a recipe from Youtube in another thread that used isopropyl alcohol but now I’m not sure the Forum approves of it.

I don't think methanol is used in Australia (the name methylated spirits is probably outdated). The product I have definitely doesn't contain methanol. Given the recommended uses for the product I have, the lack of any safety warnings (other than do no drink) and that I'll only be applying it to my skin, I am not concerned about it being too toxic.

Cleaners are constantly exposed to both the products I have used when cleaning things and it's constantly on their hands. They have both been used for decades.

I realize it's not the absolute best product, but I'm trying to work with what we have available and the bigger enemy is a virus at the moment.

 

[256bits]

Here is a well respected scientist mentioning anything with 60% plus alcohol will do the job:

Misinformation of some sort.
Just rubbing your hand with sanitizer does not eliminate ALL the germs - only those that the sanitizer has access to. It helps, but as such is not a complete solution such as FULLY washing your hands for 20 -30 seconds, where the soap and water removes material from the surface of the skin and flushes it - the hand sanitizer since it evaporates fairly quickly might not access hard to reach places such as in between fingers.

Why is it that washing has a recommendation for 20 -30 seconds, but an assumption is made laterally that a five second rub with alcohol would have the same effectiveness ( which is what a squirt from hand sanitzer bottles literally entails ).

https://prepforthat.com/hand-sanitizers-fail-influenza-a-virus-preventions/
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-09/asfm-tbh091119.php

The influenza A virus (IAV) remains infectious in wet mucus from infected patients, even after being exposed to an ethanol-based disinfectant (EBD) for two full minutes, report researchers at Kyoto Profectural University of Medicine, in Japan. Fully deactivating the virus, they found, required nearly four minutes of exposure to the EBD.

 

[Eskus]

Misinformation of some sort.
Just rubbing your hand with sanitizer does not eliminate ALL the germs - only those that the sanitizer has access to. It helps, but as such is not a complete solution such as FULLY washing your hands for 20 -30 seconds, where the soap and water removes material from the surface of the skin and flushes it - the hand sanitizer since it evaporates fairly quickly might not access hard to reach places such as in between fingers.

From memory, he does mention that the alcohol needs to make contact with the virus to kill it. He is not talking about hand sanitiser specifically. I think it's common sense that hand sanitiser is 100% foolproof.

Why is it that washing has a recommendation for 20 -30 seconds, but an assumption is made laterally that a five second rub with alcohol would have the same effectiveness ( which is what a squirt from hand sanitzer bottles literally entails ).

Who has made that assumption? The general consensus in Australia is that washing your hands with soap is the best option. However, I assume general soap is less 'deadly' to a virus than alcohol - I could be wrong though. Applying an abundant amount of alcohol to your hands continuously for 30 seconds would probably kill more than soap would in that time?? In saying that, washing your hands properly would probably be more effective than the average hand sanitiser clean. Hand sanitiser is the only practical option in some situations and it's why I require it.

The influenza A virus (IAV) remains infectious in wet mucus from infected patients, even after being exposed to an ethanol-based disinfectant (EBD) for two full minutes, report researchers at Kyoto Profectural University of Medicine, in Japan. Fully deactivating the virus, they found, required nearly four minutes of exposure to the EBD.

Does this have more to do with a membrane of mucus protecting the virus and the ethanol not actually getting to it.

 

[256bits]

Does this have more to do with a membrane of mucus protecting the virus and the ethanol not actually getting to it.

More to due to viscosity of sputum.
That is why rubbing is good - it spreads out the surface of the droplets available for penetration of the active agents.

 

[chemisttree]

I don't think methanol is used in Australia (the name methylated spirits is probably outdated). The product I have definitely doesn't contain methanol.

Yeaaahh, uh, would you feel the same if the they called it, “gonorrhea’d spirits?” Probably outdated but I wouldn’t put my lips on it!
Yeah, you might be right. Probably just a marketing gimmick. That works muuuch better than “ethanol.”

Your logic is inescapable...

edit: eucalyptus oil is soluble 1:5 in 70% alcohol. It either isn’t alcohol or it isn’t pure eucalyptus oil.

 

[Eskus]

Yeaaahh, uh, would you feel the same if the they called it, “gonorrhea’d spirits?” Probably outdated but I wouldn’t put my lips on it!
Yeah, you might be right. Probably just a marketing gimmick. That works muuuch better than “ethanol.”

Your logic is inescapable...

That's a bizarre response and I'm not 100% sure what you're getting at. I sense sarcasm, so I'll respond as such...

You're probably right. I will be the first person to die from this product being on my skin despite the fact some homeless people drink it and survive for many years... Methylated spirits in this country are usually ethanol with a bittering agent to make it smell and taste awful. They generally don't use anything too poisonous anymore. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw2krbpCCIMnBTVHmyYBoBy-&cshid=1585379540938

As for eucalyptus oil being poisonous. You can buy throat lozenges with eucalyptus oil in them. I think my skin will be fine.

 

[256bits]

From memory, he does mention that the alcohol needs to make contact with the virus to kill it. He is not talking about hand sanitiser specifically. I think it's common sense that hand sanitiser is 100% foolproof.

The 100% foolproof would be complete isolation from everyone else, which is pretty much impossible.

Everything helps, such as the washing and hand sanitization.
The main reason I mentioned what I did is because people being people are led into a false sense of security of 100% through some sort of ratiionalization. ( ie - I don't have to wash because I use hand sanitizer for example ).
( Not saying that you, are as you seem to be thinking this through for benefit )

Example - I went into a food store the other day, At the entrance there was the wipe down of the shopping cart handle, and the hand sanitizer thing before continuing on into the store. So one could say the store was doing their thing for protection of people and their food products, and it gives the shoppers a calmer sense of ease versus anxiety.. But only for that brief moment is the protection viable - if I was infected and a minute later coughed into my hands, the virus would be transmitted onto anything else I touched. Plus they did have the lines taped to the floor on spacing at the checkout counter. ( Funny thing at another store, the guard was telling two people to split up - not hearing that they were married and in contact every where else . Well, what can I say... Rules are rules, and he was probably avoiding chaos from other customers " if they can do it why can't I" if the other customers fail to reflect upon the marriage thing )

it is difficult to transit information to each and everyone of the general public on how to act correctly. Thus general recommendations that will have the most impact and also practical is what is put out there by the agencies. It certainly would be impractical to have a tub of alcohol at that store for people to dip their hands in for 4 minutes to completely clear the hands for 1. the person after me would feel ill at ease in dipping their hands in what I had just dipped my hands. 2. the effectiveness lasts only up to the time I cough into my hands once more. 3. There might be not enough alcohol around to provide tubs at all locations, 4 ...
Note that even people in the know - health care professionals, do acquire infections, even if we can assume that they take more care than the general public, so there is not a complete failsafe.

Hand wash.
Use sanitizer - eliminates germs on most contact points of your hands - the palm area and finger tips.

PS surgeons use masks ( and wash hands ) not to protect themselves, but rather to protect the patient.
By hand washing and sanitizer, and a mask if so desired, while there is some self protection, the main effect is that one is lessening the chances that you will be responsible for transmission of a disease from one surface area to another, or from you to another.

From memory, he does mention that the alcohol needs to make contact with the virus to kill it. He is not talking about hand sanitiser specifically. I think it's common sense that hand sanitiser is 100% foolproo

Well he does mention the flattening of the curve, which is what the agencies are attempting to do, so yeah you did correctly call me out on that. i guess I rather foolishly thought of it from a purely clinical approach. My bad.

 

[chemisttree]

Did you actually read the source you linked? It can be as much as 5% methanol by Australian law! Changing its coding doesn’t change the law.

You added enough of what you call eucalyptus oil to see a cloudy solution! Why don’t you google the solubility of eucalyptus oil in ethanol and reason it out for yourself?

 

[Eskus]

Did you actually read the source you linked? It can be as much as 5% methanol by Australian law! Changing its coding doesn’t change the law.

You added enough of what you call eucalyptus oil to see a cloudy solution! Why don’t you google the solubility of eucalyptus oil in ethanol and reason it out for yourself?

I'm not sure if you read my previous message, so i'll try again. There is no methanol in the product I am using.

In case that seems unbelievable, the government document I linked states:

Advice from the Poisons Information Centre indicates that by law, Australian methylated spirits cannot contain more than 5% methanol and most do not contain methanol at all. Therefore, in the case of poisoning by Australian methylated spirits, most often the substance causing the poisoning would be ethanol. Therefore, the default code for methylated spirits poisoning should be T51.0 Ethanol unless there is documentation that the methylated spirits contained methanol.

You added enough of what you call eucalyptus oil to see a cloudy solution! Why don’t you google the solubility of eucalyptus oil in ethanol and reason it out for yourself?

Well I have practically no education in Chemistry and thought someone in this forum could explain it to me or point me in the right direction. Thank you for finally giving me a partial answer to my question.

To anyone else that is able to help... My non existent chemistry education leads me to believe the oil has dissolved with the ethanol and this has caused the ethanol to resist mixing with the water? Is this on the right path? So i would also assume that the cloudy solution down the bottom is still almost pure alcohol and should still kill viruses as intended?

 

[Eskus]

The main reason I mentioned what I did is because people being people are led into a false sense of security of 100% through some sort of ratiionalization.

Very good post and I completely understand where you're coming from.

I also understand that the agencies are offering very generic information that doesn't necessarily have each individuals best interests in mind (rather the population as a whole). They factor in the economy, health etc and meet somewhere in the middle. One good example is the wording they use around N95 masks... Obviously if there were enough of them for everyone to wear one, then it would go a long way and be at least slightly beneficial to each individual... But there's not enough, so they use some misleading wording in order to try avoid a shortage (at least that's the case in Australia).

If I was in an at risk category and worried for my health, I'd be ignoring government advice and I would have moved to an outback farm with complete isolation, protective equipment, showers and I'd have food delivered and left outside to decontaminate etc etc haha.

I understand that hand sanitiser is only a partial solution and there's a thousand different ways to get infected. The main reason I need hand sanitiser is because I run a real estate and having procedures in place reduces the risk of litigation a year from now. I'm in one of the lowest risk categories and my parents are also very low risk, grandparents live interstate etc etc. I would honestly prefer to get the virus to get it out of the way and potentially not have to worry about transmitting it while being asymptomatic. I believe we'll all get it before there's a vaccine and I'm not too keen to try an experimental vaccine anyway (no I'm not an anti-vaxer).

 

[Borek]

I wonder if it is really a methylated spirit, if is not perfectly miscible with water and separates into layers.

Additives can crash out when water is added - in effect the solution can become milky, or something can precipitate, or a thin layer of something immiscible can appear - these all would be reasonable (and are actually the same thing, separate phase appears when solubility limit is reached). Perhaps I am missing something, but can't think of a physicochemical process that would effect in separation like the one you describe.

 

[Eskus]

I wonder if it is really a methylated spirit, if is not perfectly miscible with water and separates into layers.

Additives can crash out when water is added - in effect the solution can become milky, or something can precipitate, or a thin layer of something immiscible can appear - these all would be reasonable (and are actually the same thing, separate phase appears when solubility limit is reached). Perhaps I am missing something, but can't think of a physicochemical process that would effect in separation like the one you describe.

Thank you for your input even though it is getting a little too technical for me :)

It all seemed to mix together until a few drops of eucalyptus oil were added. After I added the oil, I noticed it had separated into two layers which seems to be similar to the ratio of water to methylated spirits i mixed (it's almost like those glass ornaments with coloured liquids in them that don't mix).

I googled the solubility of eucalyptus oil and it's only soluble in ethanol, could that be what's caused it to do this?

The methylated spirit container is now packed away, but if it helps, it definitely said ethanol on it and it was something like 95-99%.

 

[256bits]

I wonder if it is really a methylated spirit, if is not perfectly miscible with water and separates into layers.

Additives can crash out when water is added - in effect the solution can become milky, or something can precipitate, or a thin layer of something immiscible can appear - these all would be reasonable (and are actually the same thing, separate phase appears when solubility limit is reached). Perhaps I am missing something, but can't think of a physicochemical process that would effect in separation like the one you describe.

Something such as the ouzo effect

 

[Borek]

Something such as the ouzo effect

Exactly, but that happens in the whole volume and doesn't produce effect like layer separation.

 

[256bits]

Exactly, but that happens in the whole volume and doesn't produce effect like layer separation.

So there must be some other element in the water or alcohol that does the separation.

I am thinking of something along the lines of such as what happens when one adds salt to an alcohol and water mixture. The two liquids will separate due to the ionic nature of the salt attracting the water molecules.

The top layers in this particular case would not be alcohol and oil as they both are miscible.
So that clear layer has to be water.

Perhaps the original water/alcohol mixture was already separated, but not noticeable since both are clear.
The then adding of the oil made the separation visible to the naked eye.

Just thinking out loud here.

 

[chemisttree]

It all seemed to mix together until 1) a few drops of eucalyptus oil were added. After I added the oil, I noticed it had separated into two layers which seems to be similar to the ratio of water to methylated spirits i mixed (it's almost like those glass ornaments with coloured liquids in them that don't mix).

I googled the solubility of eucalyptus oil and 2) it's only soluble in ethanol, could that be what's caused it to do this?

The methylated spirit container is now packed away, but if it helps, 3) it definitely said ethanol on it and it was something like 95-99%.

1). You seem intent on using this eucalyptus oil even though you are having trouble. No amount of discussion here can change the fact that it isn’t working for you. But since you seem intent, please describe your test in some detail. You have some (unknown to us) volume of 65% methylated spirits and you add a couple of drops of oil of unknown purity. It forms two layers. Earlier you wrote that you would add 0.1mL of the oil of unknown purity into 1L of the 65% methylated spirits. What are you actually doing here?

2). Pure eucalyptus oil is soluble 1 part in 5 in 70% aqueous ethanol. Think about that. Is it likely a couple of drops would phase separate from 65% aqueous ethanol?

3). If the label indicates 95-99% ethanol, can you at least acknowledge that you have no idea what as much as 5% of the methylated spirits might be?

You claim you are doing this because you want to avoid potential future lawsuits. Really?

 

[Eskus]

1). You seem intent on using this eucalyptus oil even though you are having trouble. No amount of discussion here can change the fact that it isn’t working for you.

There is limited products available in stores and this has already been mixed. I'm trying to determine if I need to throw it away. I really would like to avoid that if possible.

You have seemed determined to try convince me that these two products are too toxic. Can we please just move past that - they may not be ideal but they're not going to hurt anyone who puts it on their skin once or twice. In fact they are both commonly used on bare skin...

Pure eucalyptus oil is soluble 1 part in 5 in 70% aqueous ethanol. Think about that. Is it likely a couple of drops would phase separate from 65% aqueous ethanol?

No idea, that's why I'm asking some people that are educated on the topic.

If the label indicates 95-99% ethanol, can you at least acknowledge that you have no idea what as much as 5% of the methylated spirits might be?

Correct. No idea other than being 100% sure there is zero methanol. I have just confirmed it's 95% ethanol. 5% is unknown.

You claim you are doing this because you want to avoid potential future lawsuits. Really?

My other options are to not follow hygiene advice suggested by the government or shut down my business.

I'm interested to hear how this lawsuit might unfold though...

Anyway, as mentioned, both products are commonly used on bare skin and have been for decades. My actual question regarding whether the alcohol part of the mixture is still likely be effective has already been answered despite this deviation from my initial question. Thanks for your time.

 

[chemisttree]

So, did you source your eucalyptus oil from the aromatherapy section?

 

[Eskus]

So, did you source your eucalyptus oil from the aromatherapy section?

Good one. No it's from the supermarket right next to the medicine actually.

It's also available at every pharmacy...

 

[chemisttree]

OK then , just so you know.

 

[Tom.G]

So i would also assume (ass of[ U and me) that the cloudy solution down the bottom is still almost pure alcohol and should still kill viruses as intended?

Collect that cloudy solution, either by gently pouring off the other stuff, or using a pipette, eye dropper, basting syringe, or straw.

• Smell it. Does it smell like eucalyptus or alcohol?
• Rub it between your fingers. Does it evaporate rapidly, cooling your fingers?
• Put it in a small metal container and see if it will burn.

You can do the same with the other layers too.
That way you at least have some information, as opposed to wishful thinking.