How to predict the volume of a tank of water at any time? (fluid motion)

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around predicting the volume of water in a cylindrical tank over time as it drains through a pipe. Participants explore the application of fluid dynamics principles, specifically the Hagen–Poiseuille equation and Pascal's law, in deriving a formula for the volume at any given time. The conversation includes considerations of viscosity, pipe dimensions, and the tank's orientation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes using the Hagen–Poiseuille equation and Pascal's law to derive a formula for the volume of the tank over time, expressing uncertainty about the derivation process.
  • Another participant questions whether the tank is horizontal or vertical, suggesting that this affects the method of analysis.
  • It is clarified that the tank is vertical, which influences the approach to the problem.
  • Several participants refer to the problem as a classic tank drain scenario and suggest external resources for further exploration, although some express concerns that these resources focus more on Torricelli's law, which may not fully address the complexities of the current situation.
  • One participant suggests modifying the treatment of the problem to include viscosity effects and resistance coefficients, indicating a more complex relationship between flow rate and height.
  • There is a mention of using correlations for friction factors that depend on Reynolds number to capture viscosity effects in the analysis.
  • A suggestion is made to solve the derived equation for flow rate as a function of height and to integrate it to find the relationship over time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on a definitive formula or method. Multiple competing views and approaches remain, particularly regarding the appropriate equations and factors to consider in the analysis.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the derivation of the volume formula and the applicability of different fluid dynamics principles. There are unresolved aspects regarding the integration of viscosity and pipe characteristics into the flow rate calculations.

Zaxo3000
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
We have a cylindrical tank of known dimensions. Attached at the bottom is a pipe perpendicular to the tank of known dimensions. We fill the tank with a liquid and let it drain out through the pipe. What formula will predict the volume of the tank at any time t? I believe the Hagen–Poiseuille equation (involves the viscosity of the liquid) and Pascal's law (involves the density of the liquid) are involved, but i cannot derive an equation for the volume at any time. All working and any explanation where ever necessary would be appreciated.

Heres my attempt at it:
ΔP = 8μLQ / πr^4

ΔP is the pressure drop
L is the length of pipe
μ is the dynamic viscosity
Q is the volumetric flow rate
r is the radius

ΔP = ρgΔh

g is acceleration due to gravity
ρ is the fluid density
Δh is the height of fluid

ΔP = 8μLQ / πr^4
ΔP = ρgΔh
Volume of tank = πr^2h
8μLQ / πr^4 = ρgΔh
Q = ρgΔh ✕ πr^4 / 8μL

This is essentially equal to Q = k Δh where k is = ρg ✕ πr^4 / 8μL
Im fairly sure is is redundant however as of course the rate of flow is proportional to the change in height of water as when the Δh is multiplied by the area of the circular face of the tank it will give the volume of the cylinder of water which has left through the pipe during the Δh. There has to be an equation for the relationship I am looking for as the results of the test will be consistent.
 
Last edited:
Engineering news on Phys.org
Is you tank horizontal or vertical? This will govern the method to apply.
 
edgepflow said:
Is you tank horizontal or vertical? This will govern the method to apply.
Its a vertical standing tank, on its circular face.
 
edgepflow said:
This is just the classic tank drain problem. All my best books are at work but try

http://www.lmnoeng.com/Tank/TankTime.htm
Thanks edgepflow for the link. However that websites seems to be focused more on a Torricelli's law situation, which was created for holes. It does appear to take into account an oriface discharge constant but only relates it to the type of hole. As a large part of my experiment will be testing different viscosity and lengths of the pipe, a formula (such as the Hagen–Poiseuille equation) which takes these both into account is something that should be part of the answer.
 
Zaxo3000 said:
Thanks edgepflow for the link. However that websites seems to be focused more on a Torricelli's law situation, which was created for holes. It does appear to take into account an oriface discharge constant but only relates it to the type of hole. As a large part of my experiment will be testing different viscosity and lengths of the pipe, a formula (such as the Hagen–Poiseuille equation) which takes these both into account is something that should be part of the answer.
I think you can modify this treatment to include your other effects as follows:

DP = rho * g * h = KT * rho * v^2/2 + f (L/D) * rho * v^2/2

K = sum of all resistance coefficients (including opening)
L = length of pipe
and the rest are the usual meening.

Note that you can capture your viscosity effects with correlations for f that depend on Reynold's Number.

So solve this above equation for Q as a function h.

Then, as was done in the link: Integrate Q(h) = -A dh/dt.
 

Similar threads

Replies
8
Views
6K
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
13K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
10
Views
11K