How to prove rank(A+B)<=rankA+rankB ?thanks

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the inequality rank(A+B) ≤ rank(A) + rank(B) in the context of linear algebra. Participants explore various approaches to understand the relationship between the ranks of the matrices A, B, and their sum A+B.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests hints for proving the inequality and expresses uncertainty about finding the rank of A+B from its column vectors.
  • Another participant suggests that instead of finding the rank of A+B, one should consider the span of the columns of A and B and how they relate to the columns of A+B.
  • A different viewpoint argues that the span of the vectors (a_i + b_i) is not equivalent to the span of the columns of A and B, and provides a counterexample where B = -A.
  • One participant proposes a notation to clarify the choice of basis vectors but questions whether the rank of the combined span equals the sum of the ranks of A and B.
  • Another participant emphasizes that there is no guarantee that a subset of columns will form a basis, suggesting that this point is immaterial to the discussion.
  • A later reply indicates a realization that the discussion relates to a replacement lemma, implying a deeper connection to established mathematical concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between the spans of the column vectors and the ranks of the matrices. There is no consensus on the correct approach to proving the inequality, and multiple competing perspectives remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference definitions and properties of rank and span, but there are unresolved assumptions about the nature of the basis and the implications of linear combinations. The discussion does not clarify the conditions under which the proposed relationships hold.

boombaby
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can anyone give some hints to prove rank(A+B)<=rankA+rankB ?
i just don't know how to find the rank(A+B) from the column vectors of (A+B) ... or there's another way to prove?
thanks a lot
 
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You don't have to find the rank of A+B. You just need to show it is less than something else. Let let a_i and b_j, 1<=i,j<=n be the columns of A and B. What is the span of A+B's columns? It is the span of the vectors (a_i+b_i). What is the dimension of this space in relation to the span of hte a_i and the b_j? (You don't need to work anything out.)
 
and so <a_i+b_i> = <a_1,a_2,..a_rankA,b_1,b_2...b_rankB> as every a_i+b_i can be written as a linear combination of those vectors...this is really easy..thanks a lot!
without your help i might still be stuck with finding out which a_i+b_i is the base vector of A+B...
 
No, that is not the case. The span <a_i+b_i> is definitely not the span <a_i,b_j>. If it were then the question would be: show the rank of A+B equals the rank of A plus the rank of B. That is false - just consider B=-A to see this.

But, anything in the span of <a_i+b_i> is in the span of <a_i,b_j>, which gives the answer.Also, the number of columns of A is not its rank - you don't just take the columns a_1,..,a_rank(A)
 
maybe I should write a_x(1) , a_x(2) , ...a_x(r) where r=rank(A) and x(i) shows the actual column number of the chosen base vectors...(sorry for my poor english...)

but i think... the rank of <a_i,b_j> dose not equal to rank(A)+ rank(B). if A=B ,then <a_i,b_j>=<a_i> .am i right?

so can i say rank(A+B)<= rank<A,B> <=rank A+rank B ? thanks for help
 
You shouldn't write some choice of r of the columns - there is nothing that says r of them will form a basis. But that is completely immaterial.

You are on the right lines - think about how to write things clearly.
 
matt grime said:
there is nothing that says r of them will form a basis.

i'm not quite clear about this.
rank(A) is defined (in my book) to be dim<a_1 ,a_2,a_n>. and so definitely r of them will form a basis of the span <a_1,a_2,...a_n> ,so why can't i make some choice of a_i to be the basis? sorry for asking if i misunderstand something...but i just want to make sure of it.
thanks again
 
I was being dense - this is just a replacement lemma.
 

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