How to solve: ((1/k)')^2 + T^2(1/k)^2 - T^2 = 0

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving the non-linear differential equation ((1/k)')^2 + T^2(1/k)^2 - T^2 = 0, where k is a function of s and T is a constant. The context includes attempts to describe curves with constant torsion on a unit sphere, with participants exploring various methods and approaches to find solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty recalling differential equations and attempts to manipulate the equation by letting 1/k = R, leading to a proposed solution involving trigonometric functions.
  • Another participant questions the applicability of the characteristic equation to this non-linear context, indicating a misunderstanding in the approach.
  • A later reply acknowledges the non-linearity of the equation and suggests a different form for R, indicating a need for clarity in notation.
  • One participant presents a derived form of the equation and proposes a solution involving an arctangent function, while expressing uncertainty about the implications of taking square roots.
  • There is mention of a potential solution that involves sine and cosine functions, with a participant reflecting on the sufficiency of the relationship between k and R.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the methods for solving the equation, with multiple competing approaches and some uncertainty about the correctness of their manipulations and assumptions.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved mathematical steps and potential errors in the participants' calculations, as well as dependencies on specific assumptions regarding the functions involved.

Pwantar
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That equation again is: ((1/k)')^2 + T^2(1/k)^2 - T^2 = 0
where k is a function of s, T is a constant, and ' denotes differentiation with respect to s.

If you're wondering, it arises when you try to describe the family of curves with constant torsion that lie on the unit sphere. Here, T is the torsion, and k is the curvature. And boy do I wish I remembered my differential equations class a little better.


My attempt:

Let 1/k = R.

Then (R')^2 + T^2*R^2 -T^2 = 0

Suppose R = A*cos(Ts) + B*sin(Ts)

Plugging it in, it is found that A^2+B^2=1

So, R = cos(a)*sin(Ts)+sin(a)+cos(Ts)

So K = R^-1...

Which does not satisfy the equation :(


I also tried setting it up like this:

K' +Sqrt[T^2*K^2*(K^4-K^2)]
 
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Hi Pwantar! :smile:
Pwantar said:
Then (R')^2 + T^2*R^2 -T^2 = 0

Suppose R = A*cos(Ts) + B*sin(Ts)

Nooo …

what are the roots of the characteristic equation? :wink:
 
That's a non-linear equation. Neither Acos(Ts)+ Bsin(Ts), nor the concept of "characteristic equation" apply.
 
oops!

HallsofIvy said:
That's a non-linear equation. Neither Acos(Ts)+ Bsin(Ts), nor the concept of "characteristic equation" apply.

oops! thanks, HallsofIvy! :redface:

(all those ^2s confusing me)

better write it R'/√(1 - R2) = ±T :smile:
 
As I'm too lazy to recheck what I've written now that I'm already at this fancy text box thing that I don't understand, but love, I would like to point out an error that may or may not be present, as well as a possible solution.

((1/k)')^2 + T^2*(1/k)^2 - T^2 = 0

(-k'/k^2)^2 + T^2*(1/k)^2 - T^2 = 0

(k')^2/k^4 + T^2*(1/k)^2 - T^2 = 0

(k')^2 = T^2*k^2*(k^2-1)

dk/ds = T*k*Sqrt(k^2-1)

-atan(1/sqrt(k^2-1) = Ts + C, where C is an arbitrary constant

k = sqrt(1/tan(-Ts-C)^2 + 1)

k = 1/cos(Ts + C)

which happily satisfies my equation... the thing I don't like is taking the square root. Perhaps I should consider both the negative and positive sqrts... however, just looking at it, I don't think the solution will change.One more thing...
That Solution to the equation for R that I mentioned earlier actually does work... I guessed it based off of me forseeing a few sin^2 + cos^2 dealies cancelling out.

the knowledge that k=1/R does not appear to be sufficient information to find k given R... however, should a = Pi/2, it works, save for the phase angle C. It could be that I made a mistake somewhere. Perhaps I'll actually try to find my work for it, examine it, and notify you of anything interesting.Whoops, I made some mistakes in what I typed, but got the answer... I'll leave it as an exercise to you to figure out what they are
 
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