How to solve this second-order nonlinear ordinary differential equation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a second-order nonlinear ordinary differential equation related to the trajectory of a dog chasing a postman. Participants explore various methods of manipulation and substitution to approach the solution, including integration techniques and numerical methods.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the original equation and seeks guidance on how to solve it.
  • Another participant suggests simplifying the equation by reducing the number of variables and proposes a substitution method involving derivatives.
  • A different participant attempts to apply the suggested substitutions but encounters difficulties in solving the resulting integrals.
  • Several participants provide a detailed approach to separating variables and integrating, leading to an implicit solution.
  • Numerical methods using Mathematica are discussed as a means to verify the analytical solution, with specific code examples provided.
  • There is a suggestion that there may be alternative methods to solve the equation, indicating ongoing exploration of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach of simplifying the equation and using substitutions, but there is no consensus on the best method to solve the equation or whether the proposed solutions are definitive.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the integration steps and the implications of their substitutions. The discussion reflects varying levels of familiarity with the mathematical techniques involved.

dimension10
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I was trying to solve a calculus problem (about the equation of the curve traced by a dog chasing a postman) and I came across the following equation. I would like to know how to solve it.

[tex]\frac{w}{v}(1-\frac{y(x)y''(x)}{{y'(x)}^{2}})=\sqrt{1+{y(x)}^{2}}-\sqrt{1+{C}^{2}}[/tex]

Thanks.
 
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dimension10 said:
I was trying to solve a calculus problem (about the equation of the curve traced by a dog chasing a postman) and I came across the following equation. I would like to know how to solve it.

[tex]\frac{w}{v}(1-\frac{y(x)y''(x)}{{y'(x)}^{2}})=\sqrt{1+{y(x)}^{2}}-\sqrt{1+{C}^{2}}[/tex]

Thanks.

You have got to remove all that clutter. It just makes it way more confussing. And what's with all those extra letters. Need to absorb them into one another for now. How about start with writing it as:

[tex]k\left(1-\frac{yy''}{(y')^2}\right)=\sqrt{1+y^2}-c[/tex]

See what I mean?
Now, itsn't that an equation with the independent variable missing? You know the kind where you let:

[tex]\frac{dy}{dx}=p[/tex]
[tex]\frac{d^2y}{dx^2}=p\frac{dp}{dy}[/tex]

Now, make all those substitutions, solve it for p in terms of y, and then integrate one more time.
 
Last edited:
jackmell said:
You have got to remove all that clutter. It just makes it way more confussing. And what's with all those extra letters. Need to absorb them into one another for now. How about start with writing it as:

[tex]k\left(1-\frac{yy''}{(y')^2}\right)=\sqrt{1+y^2}-c[/tex]

See what I mean?
Now, itsn't that an equation with the independent variable missing? You know the kind where you let:

[tex]\frac{dy}{dx}=p[/tex]
[tex]\frac{d^2y}{dx^2}=p\frac{dp}{dy}[/tex]

Now, make all those substitutions, solve it for p in terms of y, and then integrate one more time.

But I tried that and got

[tex]p=\int {(\frac{dy}{dx})}^{2}(\frac{c-\sqrt{1+{y}^{2}}}{k}+1)dx[/tex]which is equivalent to

[tex]y=\int \int {(\frac{dy}{dx})}^{2}(\frac{c-\sqrt{1+{y}^{2}}}{k}+1)dx\; dx[/tex]

but I have no idea how to solve that...
 
Let's solve this one:

[tex]k\left(1-\frac{yy''}{(y')^2}\right)=\sqrt{1+y^2}-c,\quad y(0)=1,\quad y'(0)=1[/tex]
Letting:

[tex]\frac{dy}{dt}=p,\quad \frac{d^2y}{dy^2}=p\frac{dp}{dy}[/tex]

then:

[tex]k\left(1-\frac{ypp'}{p^2}\right)=\sqrt{1+y^2}-c[/tex]

at this point, separate the variables first, then let [itex]u=k+c[/itex] and then integrate to obtain:

[tex]\int_{1}^{y'} k\frac{dp}{p}=\int_0^y \frac{u-\sqrt{1+y^2}}{y}dy[/tex]

[tex]k\log(y')=\left(u\log(y)+\log(1+\sqrt{1+y^2})-\log(y)-\sqrt{1+y^2}\right)-k2[/tex]

so that:

[tex] \begin{align*}<br /> \frac{dy}{dt}&=\exp\left\{\frac{1}{k}\biggr[u\log(y)+\log(1+\sqrt{1+y^2}-\log(y)-\sqrt{1+y^2}-k2\biggr]\right\}\\<br /> &=e^{f(y)}<br /> \end{align*}[/tex]

then we integrate again:

[tex]\int_{1}^{y} e^{-f(y)}dy=\int_0^t dt[/tex]

to obtain the implicit answer:

[tex]h(y)=t[/tex]

or:

[tex]y=h^{-1}(t)[/tex]

Now, ain't that beautiful or what?

and we can check this numerically in Mathematica by first solving the IVP numerically, then integrate our analytic solution numerically and compare the two. Note in the Table command below, I implicitly "invert" the function h(y) by reversing the calculated values {t(y),y}:

Code:
w = 0.5; 
v = 1.7; 
k = w/v; 
c2 = 1.5; 
c = Sqrt[1 + c2^2]; 
y0 = 1; 
y1 = 1; 
u = k + c; 
k2 = Log[1 + Sqrt[2]] - Sqrt[2]

mysol = NDSolve[{k*(1 - (y[t]*Derivative[2][y][t])/Derivative[1][y][t]^2) == Sqrt[1 + y[t]^2] - c, 
    y[0] == y0, Derivative[1][y][0] == y1}, y, {t, 0, 5}]

p1 = Plot[y[t] /. mysol, {t, 0, 5}, PlotStyle -> Red]

f[y_] := Exp[(-k^(-1))*(u*Log[y] + Log[1 + Sqrt[1 + y^2]] - Log[y] - Sqrt[1 + y^2] - k2)]

myt[y_] := NIntegrate[f[s], {s, y0, y}]

mysol = Table[{myt[y], y}, {y, y0, 5, 0.1}]; 

p2 = ListPlot[mysol, Joined -> True, PlotStyle -> Blue]
Show[{p1, p2}]

There may however be a better way to solve this.
 
Last edited:
jackmell said:
Let's solve this one:

[tex]k\left(1-\frac{yy''}{(y')^2}\right)=\sqrt{1+y^2}-c,\quad y(0)=1,\quad y'(0)=1[/tex]
Letting:

[tex]\frac{dy}{dt}=p,\quad \frac{d^2y}{dy^2}=p\frac{dp}{dy}[/tex]

then:

[tex]k\left(1-\frac{ypp'}{p^2}\right)=\sqrt{1+y^2}-c[/tex]

at this point, separate the variables first, then let [itex]u=k+c[/itex] and then integrate to obtain:

[tex]\int_{1}^{y'} k\frac{dp}{p}=\int_0^y \frac{u-\sqrt{1+y^2}}{y}dy[/tex]

[tex]k\log(y')=\left(u\log(y)+\log(1+\sqrt{1+y^2})-\log(y)-\sqrt{1+y^2}\right)-k2[/tex]

so that:

[tex] \begin{align*}<br /> \frac{dy}{dt}&=\exp\left\{\frac{1}{k}\biggr[u\log(y)+\log(1+\sqrt{1+y^2}-\log(y)-\sqrt{1+y^2}-k2\biggr]\right\}\\<br /> &=e^{f(y)}<br /> \end{align*}[/tex]

then we integrate again:

[tex]\int_{1}^{y} e^{-f(y)}dy=\int_0^t dt[/tex]

to obtain the implicit answer:

[tex]h(y)=t[/tex]

or:

[tex]y=h^{-1}(t)[/tex]

Now, ain't that beautiful or what?

and we can check this numerically in Mathematica by first solving the IVP numerically, then integrate our analytic solution numerically and compare the two. Note in the Table command below, I implicitly "invert" the function h(y) by reversing the calculated values {t(y),y}:

Code:
w = 0.5; 
v = 1.7; 
k = w/v; 
c2 = 1.5; 
c = Sqrt[1 + c2^2]; 
y0 = 1; 
y1 = 1; 
u = k + c; 
k2 = Log[1 + Sqrt[2]] - Sqrt[2]

mysol = NDSolve[{k*(1 - (y[t]*Derivative[2][y][t])/Derivative[1][y][t]^2) == Sqrt[1 + y[t]^2] - c, 
    y[0] == y0, Derivative[1][y][0] == y1}, y, {t, 0, 5}]

p1 = Plot[y[t] /. mysol, {t, 0, 5}, PlotStyle -> Red]

f[y_] := Exp[(-k^(-1))*(u*Log[y] + Log[1 + Sqrt[1 + y^2]] - Log[y] - Sqrt[1 + y^2] - k2)]

myt[y_] := NIntegrate[f[s], {s, y0, y}]

mysol = Table[{myt[y], y}, {y, y0, 5, 0.1}]; 

p2 = ListPlot[mysol, Joined -> True, PlotStyle -> Blue]
Show[{p1, p2}]

There may however be a better way to solve this.

Thanks.
 

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