How to tell if an object is moving

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the question of how to determine if an object is moving in space without knowledge of one's own location or speed, exploring theoretical and conceptual aspects of motion and reference frames.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that it is impossible to determine if an object is moving without a reference frame, emphasizing the need to specify what the object is moving relative to.
  • Another participant suggests using parallax or Doppler shift to assess motion relative to distant objects.
  • A participant expresses surprise at the applicability of Doppler shift to electromagnetic waves beyond sound waves, indicating a learning moment.
  • It is proposed that for nearby objects, methods like radar or laser range finders could be used to detect motion relative to the observer.
  • A question is raised about the implications of not observing a Doppler shift, suggesting it might indicate the object is not moving relative to space.
  • A counterpoint is made that the absence of a Doppler shift only indicates no motion relative to the observer's frame, and that motion could still be present in another frame, referencing the cosmic microwave background as a potential frame of reference.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of Doppler shift and reference frames, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus on the matter.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of defining motion without a clear reference frame and the limitations of using Doppler shift as a sole indicator of motion.

Yoghurt114
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Simple question, to which I have no answer.

Say, you encounter an object in space. How can you tell if it's moving, if you don't know your own location or speed, and you don't have anything you can use to navigate by or determine your location.

Asked out of pure interest.
Thanks.
 
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You cannot. First it is critical to understand that there is no absolute frame of reference, that is, you cannot simply say an object is "moving", but you must specify what is it moving relative to. If you'd like to know if an object is moving relative to you, well then that's quite simple. One way is to look at its parallax, i.e. is its position changing relative to some very distant objects (stars or quasars or something like that). Another way would perhaps be to look for any kind of doppler shift coming from any light emitted from the object.
 
The doppler shift is the answer I was looking for. Thanks.

I was under the assumption the doppler shift only applies to ambulances and police cars ;>

Never realized it also applies to electromagnetic waves, but it of course makes perfect sense.
 
Doppler shift on incoming light if the object is something like a star or planet or nebula and very far away. If it is something like a spaceship at close range, then normal radar or a laser range finder would work. And at a close enough distance you could see it moving relative to you.
 
By the way. If the object does not seem to have any doppler shift of EM waves in any direction. Wouldn't it be safe to assume it is not moving? That is. It is not moving relative to ... space?
 
Yoghurt114 said:
By the way. If the object does not seem to have any doppler shift of EM waves in any direction. Wouldn't it be safe to assume it is not moving? That is. It is not moving relative to ... space?

The object would only have no doppler shift from YOUR frame. I could be in another frame traveling away from it and it would have doppler shift for me. There is NOT a frame for space itself. The closest thing you could say would be to take a frame of the cosmic microwave background.
 

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