How was the value of the permittivity of free space determined?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the historical and experimental determination of the permittivity of free space, ε0. Participants explore how ε0 was measured in the past and how current definitions relate to modern physics, including potential changes in SI units.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests an explanation or resource regarding the experimental determination of ε0.
  • Another participant suggests using online resources like Google or Wikipedia for information.
  • Some participants note that historical measurements of ε0 were made under different definitions of the meter and that it is currently defined through the speed of light (c) and the permeability of free space (μ0).
  • There is mention of a potential future change in SI units that could affect how ε0 is measured, linking it to the fine structure constant.
  • Participants discuss the implications of changing the definition of the Ampere and how it relates to μ0 and ε0.
  • One participant recalls a laboratory exercise involving a vacuum capacitor, emphasizing the challenges of accurately determining ε0 due to experimental error.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the historical context and current definitions of ε0, with no consensus reached on a singular method of determination or the implications of potential changes in SI units.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in historical definitions and measurement techniques, as well as the dependency on evolving standards in physics.

Steven_Scott
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The permittivity of free space, ε0, is usually given without any derivation or historical context as to how it was experimentally determined.

Could you explain to me how the value of ε0 was first determined experimentally or provide a resource that gives such a derivation?

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
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Did you try Google / Wikipedia?
 
Worth noting: It was only measured historically when the definition of the meter was different than it is today. Today, it is directly defined through the definition of ##c## and ##\mu_0##.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_permittivity

However, if you want to do it the ”old way” you can create a setup where you can determine electrostatic forces.
 
Orodruin said:
Worth noting: It was only measured historically when the definition of the meter was different than it is today. Today, it is directly defined through the definition of ##c## and ##\mu_0##.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_permittivity

However, if you want to do it the ”old way” you can create a setup where you can determine electrostatic forces.
Interestingly, if the SI units are changed at the next meeting as expected then the permittivity of free space will again be an experimentally measured quantity. It will be related to the fine structure constant.
 
Dale said:
Interestingly, if the SI units are changed at the next meeting as expected then the permittivity of free space will again be an experimentally measured quantity. It will be related to the fine structure constant.
Yes, the underlying reason being that ##\mu_0## no longer will set the definition of the Ampere, but the Ampere will instead be defined as a number of elementary charges per second.
 
Orodruin said:
Yes, the underlying reason being that \mu_0 no longer will set the definition of the Ampere,

So π (or at least 4π x 107) becomes a measured quantity? :confused:
 
Vanadium 50 said:
So π (or at least 4π x 107) becomes a measured quantity? :confused:
The definition will change to ##\mu_0=\frac{2h\alpha}{ce^2}##. All of those will be exact except for the fine structure constant.
 
I've a vague recollection of a College or Uni lab with a 'vacuum capacitor', plate edge effects mitigated by guard rings and other arcane topology.
Sadly, it was more an exercise in error bars than a definitive determination...
 

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