How's is it possible for us to harness fusion energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms of fusion energy production in the sun compared to current fusion reactors on Earth. Participants explore the temperature requirements for fusion, the challenges of containment, and potential methods for harnessing fusion energy for electricity generation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the sun can produce fusion energy at a lower temperature (10 million degrees) compared to the higher temperatures (100 million degrees) required in current reactors.
  • Another participant suggests that the sun's ability to contain the fusion process is a key factor, implying that containment is a significant challenge for terrestrial reactors.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes the rate of fuel consumption in the sun, noting that it takes billions of years to use its fuel, while reactors aim for a much higher efficiency in fuel usage.
  • One participant provides numerical context, stating that the sun's fusion power density and high pressure due to gravity contribute to its efficiency, which is not replicable on Earth.
  • Another participant discusses the quantum effects that influence fusion occurrence, indicating that fusion does not start at a specific temperature and that there is a complex relationship between temperature and fusion probability.
  • Several methods for harnessing fusion energy are proposed, including using neutrons to heat water for steam turbines and converting the kinetic energy of ions into electrical energy through magnetic fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the mechanisms of fusion energy production and the challenges of achieving it on Earth. There is no consensus on the primary factors that differentiate solar fusion from terrestrial fusion efforts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific conditions for fusion to occur, the unresolved challenges related to containment and efficiency, and the varying interpretations of the role of temperature and pressure in fusion processes.

Hypo
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Hallo everyone!

I'd like to understand why is it that the sun can produce fusion energy with less heat then the required heat in our current reactors?

Fusion reactors produce 100M/Degrees to produce a few minutes of fusion where the sun uses only 10M degrees and still produces fusion? Why is that?


Hows is it possibile for us to harness that energy? how will reactors be able to converte that to electricity or any form of energy?

Hyp,
 
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Hallo Hypo! :smile:
Hypo said:
… why is it that the sun can produce fusion energy with less heat then the required heat in our current reactors?

I think it's the containment problem …

the sun doesn't have any difficulty keeping the stuff in the reactor! :biggrin:
 
No, it's a rate problem. The sun takes 10 billion years to use its fuel, i.e. uses 10-10 of its fuel per year. For a fusion reactor, we'd like that number to be tens of percent.
 
With other numbers:
The sun releases about 40W/m^3 of fusion power in the core. The large volume of the sun gives a nice total amount of fusion power. However, for earth, it would mean that 1GWth would require ~25 million cubic meters of plasma. That is a cube with ~300m side length and impractical for power plants.

In addition, the sun has a very high pressure (due to gravity) inside - something which is not reproducible on earth. With the same temperature, the power output would be lower than the sun's by some orders of magnitude.
 
Hypo said:
Hallo everyone!

I'd like to understand why is it that the sun can produce fusion energy with less heat then the required heat in our current reactors?

Fusion reactors produce 100M/Degrees to produce a few minutes of fusion where the sun uses only 10M degrees and still produces fusion? Why is that?


The above answers are all good, however I would like to point out that it boils down to the fact that fusion doesn't start to occur at a specific temperature. Due to quantum effects there is an absolutely tiny chance of two hydrogen atoms fusing together at room temperature. The hotter you get the hydrogen the harder the two collide with one another, which increases the chance that fusion will occur. (Up to a certain point, at which the chance with start to drop again)

Hows is it possibile for us to harness that energy? how will reactors be able to converte that to electricity or any form of energy?

Hyp,

Well, first we have to be able to produce a sustained reaction or chain of pulsed reactions that produce more power than they consume. We have to use power to get the magnetic fields, electric currents, and other things that are required to contain and heat the plasma. So figuring out how to do this efficiently is how we achieve fusion power.

As to how we harness this power once we achieve a net gain, there are several options. The simplest is to simply let the neutrons from the reactions heat water and use the steam to power a turbine, like many power plants do today.

Another option, if we can get fusion to work for the particular type of fuel it requires, is to use the actual kinetic energy of the ions after fusion and convert it to electric energy. A moving charge generates a magnetic field and we can use it to slow these ions down and generate a voltage/current in the process.
 

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