I can't find a PhD in theoretical physics after 6 months of trying

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on a 25-year-old individual with a bachelor's and master's degree in physics, specializing in theoretical physics and hadron physics, who has struggled to secure a PhD position in high-energy physics (hep-th, hep-ph) after six months of applying to 10-15 positions. Despite having advanced skills in Mathematica, moderate Python, and basic C++, the individual faces repeated rejections and is considering alternative career paths. Key advice includes increasing the number of applications, consulting with referees for guidance, and exploring technical roles that leverage their physics background and programming skills.

PREREQUISITES
  • Bachelor's degree in physics
  • Master's degree in theoretical physics with a specialization in hadron physics
  • Proficiency in Mathematica and Python programming
  • Understanding of high-energy physics fields (hep-th, hep-ph)
NEXT STEPS
  • Research technical sales roles that utilize physics knowledge
  • Explore data science boot camps to enhance programming skills
  • Consult with academic referees for tailored application strategies
  • Investigate university career services for job placement resources
USEFUL FOR

Individuals with advanced degrees in physics seeking PhD positions, recent graduates exploring alternative career paths in STEM, and those interested in leveraging their academic skills in industry roles.

  • #31
TeethWhitener said:
I did turn 40 recently :D
if only I was just turning 40.......
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: pinball1970, malawi_glenn and TeethWhitener
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
TeethWhitener said:
Maybe I'm just getting older and times are changing
I do think that times are changing, but I am OK to agree to disagree on this. I think that us old-timers need to be careful in counseling the current generation to do things the way that worked for us. But different perspectives are valuable for the OP to hear.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Mondayman, berkeman, dextercioby and 1 other person
  • #33
Theory versus experiment might make a difference, too. At least back in my time in grad school, more than 40 years ago, there were far more students working in experimental groups than with theorists. Building parts of the apparatus, babysitting experimental data runs, writing code to analyze data...
 
  • #34
The biggest difference is Europe vs. the US. In the US, you apply to the university, and there may be dozens of students accepted. In Europe. it is much more common to have to apply for each position.

He wants to study in the EU. Fine. But he's only applied to, at most,, around half the countries.
 
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: hariprasadyalla and TeethWhitener
  • #35
Vanadium 50 said:
The biggest difference is Europe vs. the US. In the US, you apply to the university, and there may be dozens of students accepted. In Europe. it is much more common to have to apply for each position.

He wants to study in the EU. Fine. But he's only applied to, at most,, around half the countries.
^Yes. This.^ @TeethWhitener, discussions on this forum concerning applications to PhD programs almost always get muddled because of significant differences in the practices between the US and Europe [with the caveat that Europe is not monolithic, and even in the US there are differences among individual universities].

One major difference is that in the US, you can apply for a PhD program with just a bachelor's degree. In other countries, you need to complete a master's degree first.

Another major difference is that in the US, you apply for admission to a graduate school in a similar manner that you apply to an undergraduate school. In many (not all) graduate schools, you can't join a research group until after you've passed the qual exam. Before then, many are employed as teaching assistants. Once you pass the qual, you check out various groups who have openings and convince one to select you. At that point, you generally are employed as a research assistant. I know that since I was in grad school decades ago there have been many developments in the legal status of grad students as "employees" (including joining unions and going on strike), but I haven't followed them.

Contrast the procedure with one European university, KTH in Sweden. [I just happen to select that as an example because years ago I served as an industry mentor to a student there.] From their PhD application website (https://www.kth.se/en/studies/phd/general/how-to-apply-1.520089):

"KTH recruits only the best candidates for doctoral studies, and the selection process can be highly competitive. Prospective doctoral students apply for vacant positions, announced nine times a year: in February, March, April, May, June, September, October, November and December. To be eligible, make sure you meet the admission requirements. If you are selected, you will be employed by KTH and earn a monthly salary." <<Emphasis added.>>

So you are literally applying for employment (a job).

Furthermore, note the wording of key steps in the application process.

1. Look for a vacant doctoral position​


Doctoral positions are announced nine times a year; in February, March, April, May, June, September, October, November and December. Application deadlines may vary. List of current vacant positions

<<The link in Step 1 (https://www.kth.se/en/om/work-at-kth/doktorander-1.572201) has the title "Ph.D. student employments", and is arranged just like a list of job openings at a company.>>

...

6. Receive your employment​


When the steps above have been completed, you will be employed by KTH. Please note that non-EU/EEA citizens will need a residence permit in order to be employed and reside in Sweden.
 
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: hariprasadyalla, Dr Transport and TeethWhitener
  • #36
TeethWhitener said:
According to post #11, OP is looking to get into grad school, not apply for a job. In which case, 10 applications in 6 months is reasonable. I only applied to 5 or 6 schools for grad school, for instance.
PhD positions in Europe frequently are a job. Openings are posted just like job openings and you are paid just like an employee.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71 and Dale
  • #37
There is nothing wrong with OP's number of applications, as well as his/her profile. Most people giving answer here probably have not walked the path of theoretical particle physics. It is distinctively more difficult (to study and to secure positions) than most other fields. I was also an aspiring theoretical HEP/cosmo student and finished my Master in France, and 2 professors from my program told me not to pursue the path since it was only for the top 3-5 students in the class (my class had 30). Of course, I did not listen and failed multiple applications. It was not due to the lack of "job" search or anything, because I knew some groups in England, Finland, and Taiwan (Asia) that would gladly accept me (they had precedent with other candidates of the same background and class ranking as me). The point is, I suppose the OP's targets are the same as mine, to get into a decent group (2nd-tier group at least) , since anywhere lower and you would never get a postdoc after. Now I am having another Master in Quantitative Finance (in Luxembourg), and believe me, it is necessary to go for another since with "only" QFT and Mathematica no job office would dare to hire you, even for an internship.

On a side note, there is a top-tier group in EU, specifically the theoretical particle physics section from SISSA, Italy. In order to be accepted, you will need to prove your worth through 2 exams (written and oral). If OP can fight through literally a hundred candidates and reign in top 5, then he/she will earn a Ph.D. spot, fair and square. I did it and failed too (it is top-tier, no joke). I feel it is the only place where your profile does not matter too much (they have a CV screening round but most people will pass).
 
Last edited:
  • Skeptical
Likes   Reactions: Dale
  • #38
quantumcat212 said:
Now I am having another Master in Quantitative Finance (in Luxembourg), and believe me, it is necessary to go for another since with "only" QFT and Mathematica no job office would dare to hire you, even for an internship.
In Holland you would.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
652
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
835
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K