I can't find a PhD in theoretical physics after 6 months of trying

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenges faced by an individual seeking a PhD in theoretical physics, specifically in high-energy physics (hep-th, hep-ph, and hep-lat). The participant shares their background, application experiences, and feelings of discouragement, while seeking advice on their situation and potential career paths.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Career-related

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster (OP) has a background in physics and theoretical physics but has faced difficulties in securing a PhD position after 10-15 applications over six months.
  • Some participants suggest that the number of applications made is insufficient for a serious job search, indicating that more applications could be necessary.
  • Questions are raised about the importance of recommendation letters and whether the OP has consulted their past supervisors regarding their chances of acceptance.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of age on PhD applications, with some arguing that 25 is not too old, while others note that age may become a factor later in life.
  • Concerns are expressed about the OP's restrictive focus on specific fields, suggesting that broadening the search could yield better results.
  • The OP clarifies that they are seeking a PhD program rather than a job that requires a PhD, and they express uncertainty about their future options if they decide to stop pursuing a PhD.
  • Some participants emphasize the importance of having a backup plan and reflect on the realities of job searching in academia.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the adequacy of the OP's application efforts or the impact of age on their chances. There are differing views on the necessity of expanding the search criteria and the importance of consulting referees early in the process.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexities of the academic job market, including the number of PhD positions available and the competitive nature of applications. There are also references to the OP's feelings of discouragement and the potential need for a career shift, which remain unresolved.

  • #31
TeethWhitener said:
I did turn 40 recently :D
if only I was just turning 40.......
 
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  • #32
TeethWhitener said:
Maybe I'm just getting older and times are changing
I do think that times are changing, but I am OK to agree to disagree on this. I think that us old-timers need to be careful in counseling the current generation to do things the way that worked for us. But different perspectives are valuable for the OP to hear.
 
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  • #33
Theory versus experiment might make a difference, too. At least back in my time in grad school, more than 40 years ago, there were far more students working in experimental groups than with theorists. Building parts of the apparatus, babysitting experimental data runs, writing code to analyze data...
 
  • #34
The biggest difference is Europe vs. the US. In the US, you apply to the university, and there may be dozens of students accepted. In Europe. it is much more common to have to apply for each position.

He wants to study in the EU. Fine. But he's only applied to, at most,, around half the countries.
 
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  • #35
Vanadium 50 said:
The biggest difference is Europe vs. the US. In the US, you apply to the university, and there may be dozens of students accepted. In Europe. it is much more common to have to apply for each position.

He wants to study in the EU. Fine. But he's only applied to, at most,, around half the countries.
^Yes. This.^ @TeethWhitener, discussions on this forum concerning applications to PhD programs almost always get muddled because of significant differences in the practices between the US and Europe [with the caveat that Europe is not monolithic, and even in the US there are differences among individual universities].

One major difference is that in the US, you can apply for a PhD program with just a bachelor's degree. In other countries, you need to complete a master's degree first.

Another major difference is that in the US, you apply for admission to a graduate school in a similar manner that you apply to an undergraduate school. In many (not all) graduate schools, you can't join a research group until after you've passed the qual exam. Before then, many are employed as teaching assistants. Once you pass the qual, you check out various groups who have openings and convince one to select you. At that point, you generally are employed as a research assistant. I know that since I was in grad school decades ago there have been many developments in the legal status of grad students as "employees" (including joining unions and going on strike), but I haven't followed them.

Contrast the procedure with one European university, KTH in Sweden. [I just happen to select that as an example because years ago I served as an industry mentor to a student there.] From their PhD application website (https://www.kth.se/en/studies/phd/general/how-to-apply-1.520089):

"KTH recruits only the best candidates for doctoral studies, and the selection process can be highly competitive. Prospective doctoral students apply for vacant positions, announced nine times a year: in February, March, April, May, June, September, October, November and December. To be eligible, make sure you meet the admission requirements. If you are selected, you will be employed by KTH and earn a monthly salary." <<Emphasis added.>>

So you are literally applying for employment (a job).

Furthermore, note the wording of key steps in the application process.

1. Look for a vacant doctoral position​


Doctoral positions are announced nine times a year; in February, March, April, May, June, September, October, November and December. Application deadlines may vary. List of current vacant positions

<<The link in Step 1 (https://www.kth.se/en/om/work-at-kth/doktorander-1.572201) has the title "Ph.D. student employments", and is arranged just like a list of job openings at a company.>>

...

6. Receive your employment​


When the steps above have been completed, you will be employed by KTH. Please note that non-EU/EEA citizens will need a residence permit in order to be employed and reside in Sweden.
 
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  • #36
TeethWhitener said:
According to post #11, OP is looking to get into grad school, not apply for a job. In which case, 10 applications in 6 months is reasonable. I only applied to 5 or 6 schools for grad school, for instance.
PhD positions in Europe frequently are a job. Openings are posted just like job openings and you are paid just like an employee.
 
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  • #37
There is nothing wrong with OP's number of applications, as well as his/her profile. Most people giving answer here probably have not walked the path of theoretical particle physics. It is distinctively more difficult (to study and to secure positions) than most other fields. I was also an aspiring theoretical HEP/cosmo student and finished my Master in France, and 2 professors from my program told me not to pursue the path since it was only for the top 3-5 students in the class (my class had 30). Of course, I did not listen and failed multiple applications. It was not due to the lack of "job" search or anything, because I knew some groups in England, Finland, and Taiwan (Asia) that would gladly accept me (they had precedent with other candidates of the same background and class ranking as me). The point is, I suppose the OP's targets are the same as mine, to get into a decent group (2nd-tier group at least) , since anywhere lower and you would never get a postdoc after. Now I am having another Master in Quantitative Finance (in Luxembourg), and believe me, it is necessary to go for another since with "only" QFT and Mathematica no job office would dare to hire you, even for an internship.

On a side note, there is a top-tier group in EU, specifically the theoretical particle physics section from SISSA, Italy. In order to be accepted, you will need to prove your worth through 2 exams (written and oral). If OP can fight through literally a hundred candidates and reign in top 5, then he/she will earn a Ph.D. spot, fair and square. I did it and failed too (it is top-tier, no joke). I feel it is the only place where your profile does not matter too much (they have a CV screening round but most people will pass).
 
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  • #38
quantumcat212 said:
Now I am having another Master in Quantitative Finance (in Luxembourg), and believe me, it is necessary to go for another since with "only" QFT and Mathematica no job office would dare to hire you, even for an internship.
In Holland you would.
 
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