I Hate Scientist: But Still Worth It

[wolram]

Because when they are right they right, but when they are wrong they are right because they followed the scientific method.
Apart from that i think you scientist are worth the money.

 

[Moridin]

No, the result is still factually incorrect. Also, there isn't really anything called "The Scientific Method" because it is actually a collection of similar methods.

Guess what separates us from the Dark Ages? I'll give you a hint; it starts with s

 

[EnumaElish]

Apart from that i think you scientist are worth the money.

No, scientists are worth more.

Ask anyone which ideas started the modern age; very few people will give you the right answer: physics (Sir Isaac et al.)

Even fewer people will say that it was Einstein et al. who revolutionarized the 20th century much more fundamentally than the usual suspects (the plethora of philosophical / political figures).

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Even fewer people will say that it was Einstein et al. who revolutionarized the 20th century much more fundamentally than the usual suspects (the plethora of philosophical / political figures).

I can't think what influence Einstein had outside the scientific community. A lot of people think he invented the atomic bomb, but he didn't. Is there some other influence he had? In my opinion, the most influential person of the 20th century was Vladimir Lenin. If you want to limit it to scientists, I would say Lise Meitner.

 

[EnumaElish]

Every other issue of popular science magazines has an article about Einstein and time travel.

Just think of the jokes/talk about time being relative.

What did Lenin et al. do? They discovered the long, painful way from capitalism to capitalism.

Not many people can describe time dilution, but I think every college graduate and probably anyone who watches TV is aware that the old notion of time has been discarded. Now that's a revolution.

 

[Moridin]

Let's face it, scientists are literally (no pun intended) the new prophets of the world, ushering us into the future.

 

[mheslep]

marshall

I can't think what influence Einstein had outside the scientific community. A lot of people think he invented the atomic bomb, but he didn't. Is there some other influence he had?

I'd call him the man most responsible for the US creation of the bomb in WWII, in the sense of if you take this single person away how does history change. I base this on the http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bf/Einstein-Roosevelt-letter.png/180px-Einstein-Roosevelt-letter.png" to Roosevelt. Without Einstein's reputation behind it that letter it goes into the trash, and the $4B never gets spent on Manhattan. That, on top of E=MC^2 which showed theoretically what was possible.

In my opinion, the most influential person of the 20th century was Vladimir Lenin.

If you are speaking to the influence of ideas, one must prefer Marx to Lenin, Lenin being more of an implementor. If instead you mean implementors, then I think one must prefer Mao who dwarfed Lenin in numbers of people over whose lives he changed (and killed).

However, after the fall of the Berlin wall I think clearly democracy is clearly the most dominant political idea in the 20th century. And of the subject of economic ideas, the changes in China in the 80's/90's and later in India show free market Capitalism to be the most influential economic idea. Not sure to which 20th century individual one would give credit for these changes. Suggestions: George Marshall/R. "tear down this wall" Reagan/Gorbachev/Friedman

If you want to limit it to scientists, I would say Lise Meitner.

Her fission discovery was great, but I sense listing her as 20th century top scientist is a bit of compensation for the terrible injustice done to her by the Nobel oversight.

 

[mheslep]

Let's face it, scientists are literally (no pun intended) the new prophets of the world, ushering us into the future.

Thats hardly a given. It is Ill grant common to be taken up in the fascination with scientific discovery. Feynman, my http://xkcd.com/182/" favorite scientist, said:

From a very long view of the history of mankind - seen from, say, ten thousand years from now - there can be little doubt that the most significant event of the 19th century will be judged as Maxwell's discovery of the laws of electrodynamics. The American Civil War will fade into provincial insignificance in comparison with this important scientific event of the same decade.

I think that is at least naive, probably foolish even, to discount the elimination of one human enslaving another regardless of how far one looks to into the future. No, I'd say its a toss up between modern science and political ideas with respect to the impact on people's lives. I give the nod to political ideas.[/QUOTE]

 

[Moridin]

Thats hardly a given. Toss up between modern science and political ideas. I give the nod to political ideas.

Ideas? Yes, but not when it comes to the actual professions. I'd tend to say that politicians are generally considered dishonest. Scientists? Not so much, at least not on a general basis. Or is it just me?

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

If you are speaking to the influence of ideas, one must prefer Marx to Lenin

19th century.

If instead you mean implementors, then I think one must prefer Mao who dwarfed Lenin in numbers of people over whose lives he changed (and killed).

Without Lenin there is no Mao. Without the letter you still get a bomb.

Her fission discovery was great, but I sense listing her as 20th century top scientist is a bit of compensation for the terrible injustice done to her by the Nobel oversight.

Not the top scientist, just the most influential one. Actually, I would rather cite Shockley, Bardeen, and Brattain, but I don't know if they count as scientists.

 

[Evo]

Thats hardly a given. Toss up between modern science and political ideas. I give the nod to political ideas.

What exactly is a political idea?

 

[mheslep]

19th century.

Yep. Ok Lenin.

Without Lenin there is no Mao. Without the letter you still get a bomb.

Nah, I think no Lenin delays the creation of a Mao perhaps.
Still get a bomb? Eventually, sure, but it may have taken a long time. Consider: no Einstein and there's likely no Manhattan project, and WWII ends w/out the bomb. Recall that prior to WWII science was nickels and dimes, and after it became big business, something that is oft taken for granted today. The budgets of U. physics departments went up 100x-1000x (Bethe at Cornell for instance) for physicists returning after the war. No big dollars, no weapon's grade enrichment.

 

[mheslep]

What exactly is a political idea?

Well in the context of the Feynman quote above I mean:
Political Idea: Human chattel slavery
Scientific Idea: Maxwell's EM equations.

 

[Evo]

Well in the context of the Feynman quote above it would be:
Political Idea: Human chattel slavery
Scientific Idea: Maxwell's EM equations.

I think Wolram's talking more about a layman's view of the world.

 

[Danger]

Apart from that i think you scientist are worth the money.

There's money in this? Hell of a time to tell me.

 

[Moridin]

Scientists are not worth the money they get - they are worth more, especially with the massive cutbacks in the states.

 

[mheslep]

Not the top scientist, just the most influential one. Actually, I would rather cite Shockley, Bardeen, and Brattain, but I don't know if they count as scientists.

Good one. Add Kilby and you might have me on board.

That prompts a more general question about my Einstein promotion: The bomb aside, what's the impact to 20th century technology in the sense of impact on daily life if there is no discovery of special/general relativity, no mass energy equivalence? Even if one takes away nuclear power (not necessary really) we still get by. In particular, if science was still fumbling around trying to detect the aether, so what? There's some stars a few arc seconds away from where Newton says they should be, so what? Does no-relativity break, say, GPS?

 

[Danger]

Relativity aside, where would our electronics industry be if nobody had discovered the photoelectric effect (for which Einstein won his Emmy... no, sorry, Nobel... I watch too much TV )?

 

[jcsd]

the Scienist is the suxxor!1!1 K ThKx Bai!1!1!

 

[Evo]

the Scienist is the suxxor!1!1 K ThKx Bai!1!1!

 

[Gokul43201]

To limit Einstein's output to SR and GR is itself a severe underestimate. Don't forget his vital contributions to Statistical Mechanics (e.g., critical opalescence, radiation, BECs), Solid State Physics (e.g., laser equations, photoelectric effect, specific heat of solids), Molecular Physics (Brownian motion, capillarity, molecular spectroscopy) and Cosmology.

Bardeen was most definitely a physicist (as were Schockley and Brattain), and is definitely pretty high in impact factor (transistor physics, superconductivity).

 

[Evo]

For advances in communications and lasers, the scientists at Bell Labs were quite impressive, they funded quite a think tank. The quantum cascade laser (I thought) was quite cool.

Of course I would occasionally get to talk to some working on a project that I thought a client of mine might be a good guinea pig for and that was the most enjoyable part of my job. I got accepted in several beta trials of bleeding edge technology. <sigh>

Those days are gone.

Wolram, look at these pretty pictures of a quantum cascade laser. I believe they took one to Mars.

http://www.bell-labs.com/org/physicalsciences/projects/qcl/qcl.html

 

[moose]

http://4chanarchive.org/images/30837212/1182693266735.jpg

 

[Danger]

To limit Einstein's output to SR and GR is itself a severe underestimate.

I certainly didn't mean to belittle his other accomplishments, nor those of others; it was just an example of something that people tend to overlook when thinking of him.

Nice picture there, Moose, but shouldn't it be in the 'Members Photos' thread?

 

[wolram]

For advances in communications and lasers, the scientists at Bell Labs were quite impressive, they funded quite a think tank. The quantum cascade laser (I thought) was quite cool.

Of course I would occasionally get to talk to some working on a project that I thought a client of mine might be a good guinea pig for and that was the most enjoyable part of my job. I got accepted in several beta trials of bleeding edge technology. <sigh>

Those days are gone.

Wolram, look at these pretty pictures of a quantum cascade laser. I believe they took one to Mars.

http://www.bell-labs.com/org/physicalsciences/projects/qcl/qcl.html

Cool, it is all ways nice to be able to picture things.

 

[Moridin]

http://4chanarchive.org/images/30837212/1182693266735.jpg

I see you and raise with

I bet Feynman could make better microcalifragilistics GOYVIN! than Frink ever could.