Identical Particles - Silly question

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the quantum mechanics of identical particles, specifically focusing on two non-interacting particles in an infinite cube. The original poster seeks to determine the two-particle wave function and the energy states for distinguishable particles, identical bosons, and identical fermions, while also addressing the singlet and triplet states of fermions.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to calculate the ground and excited state energies for different types of particles and expresses uncertainty about distinguishing between singlet and triplet states for fermions.
  • Some participants question the validity of multiplying spatial wavefunctions with spinors without proper notation and emphasize the need for antisymmetry in the total wavefunction for fermions.
  • Others suggest clarifying the definitions and properties of singlet and triplet states in relation to particle exchange symmetry.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights into the requirements for constructing the total wavefunction for fermions and clarifying the properties of spin states. There is an ongoing exploration of the correct notation and conceptual understanding regarding the singlet and triplet states.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of quantum mechanics, particularly the implications of particle indistinguishability and the requirements for wavefunction symmetry. The original poster's inquiry is framed within the context of preparing for a final exam, indicating a time constraint and a focus on conceptual clarity.

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Identical Particles -- Silly question

Homework Statement



Reviewing for final, can someone check this really quick?

Two non-interacting particles are in an infinite cube, each side of length L. Determine the two-particle wave function and also the energy of the ground state and the first excited state:

a) The particles are distinguishable

b) The particles are identical bosons of spin 0

c) The particles are identical fermions of spin 1/2 (also: identify the singlet and triplet states)

Homework Equations



For a 3-D infinite potential box:

[tex]\psi(x,y,z)=\left(\frac{2}{L}\right)^{\frac{2}{3}}Sin\left(\frac{n_x \pi x}{L}\right)Sin\left(\frac{n_y \pi y}{L}\right)Sin\left(\frac{n_z \pi z}{L}\right)[/tex]

[tex]E_{n_xn_yn_z}=\frac{\hbar^2 \pi^2}{2 m L^2} (n_x^2+n_y^2+n_z^2)[/tex]

And also:

[tex]\psi(\vec{r_1},\vec{r_2})_{\pm}=A[\psi_a(\vec{r_1})\psi_b(\vec{r_2})\pm\psi_a(\vec{r_2})\psi_b(\vec{r_1})][/tex]

And don't forget about spin:

[tex]\psi(x)=\psi(x)\chi^{\pm}[/tex]

The Attempt at a Solution



a) For distinguishable

Ground state:
[tex]E_{111}=\frac{3\hbar^2 \pi^2}{2 m L^2}[/tex]

First excited state (degeneracy exists):
[tex]E_{112}=E_{121}=E_{211}=\frac{3\hbar^2 \pi^2}{ m L^2}[/tex]

[tex]\psi(\vec{r_1},\vec{r_2})=\Psi_a(x_1,y_1,z_1)\Psi_b(x_2,y_2,z_2)[/tex]

Where
[tex]\psi_a(x_1,y_1,z_1)=\left(\frac{2}{L}\right)^{\frac{2}{3}}Sin\left(\frac{n_{x_1} \pi x_1}{L}\right)Sin\left(\frac{n_{y_1} \pi y_1}{L}\right)Sin\left(\frac{n_{z_1} \pi z_1}{L}\right)[/tex]

[tex]\psi_b(x_2,y_2,z_2)=\left(\frac{2}{L}\right)^{\frac{2}{3}}Sin\left(\frac{n_{x_2} \pi x_2}{L}\right)Sin\left(\frac{n_{y_2} \pi y_2}{L}\right)Sin\left(\frac{n_{z_2} \pi z_2}{L}\right)[/tex]

b)For identical bosons of spin 0

Ground state:
[tex]E_{111}=\frac{3\hbar^2 \pi^2}{2 m L^2}[/tex]

First excited state (no degeneracy)
[tex]E_{112}=\frac{3\hbar^2 \pi^2}{ m L^2}[/tex]

[tex]\psi(\vec{r_1},\vec{r_2})_{+}=A[\psi_a(x_1,y_1,z_1)\psi_b(x_2,y_2,z_2)+\psi_a(x_2,y_2,z_2)\psi_b(x_1,y_1,z_1)][/tex]

Where

[tex]\psi_a(x_1,y_1,z_1)=\left(\frac{2}{L}\right)^{\frac{2}{3}}Sin\left(\frac{n_{x_1} \pi x_1}{L}\right)Sin\left(\frac{n_{y_1} \pi y_1}{L}\right)Sin\left(\frac{n_{z_1} \pi z_1}{L}\right)[/tex]

[tex]\psi_b(x_2,y_2,z_2)=\left(\frac{2}{L}\right)^{\frac{2}{3}}Sin\left(\frac{n_{x_2} \pi x_2}{L}\right)Sin\left(\frac{n_{y_2} \pi y_2}{L}\right)Sin\left(\frac{n_{z_2} \pi z_2}{L}\right)[/tex]

[tex]\psi_a(x_2,y_2,z_2)=\left(\frac{2}{L}\right)^{\frac{2}{3}}Sin\left(\frac{n_{x_1} \pi x_2}{L}\right)Sin\left(\frac{n_{y_1} \pi y_2}{L}\right)Sin\left(\frac{n_{z_1} \pi z_2}{L}\right)[/tex]

[tex]\psi_b(x_1,y_1,z_1)=\left(\frac{2}{L}\right)^{\frac{2}{3}}Sin\left(\frac{n_{x_2} \pi x_1}{L}\right)Sin\left(\frac{n_{y_2} \pi y_1}{L}\right)Sin\left(\frac{n_{z_2} \pi z_1}{L}\right)[/tex]

c) Identical fermions of spin 1/2

Ground state:
[tex]E_{112}=\frac{3\hbar^2 \pi^2}{m L^2}[/tex]

First excited state:
[tex]E_{122}=\frac{9\hbar^2 \pi^2}{2 m L^2}[/tex]

[tex]\psi(\vec{r_1},\vec{r_2})_{-}=A[\psi_a(x_1,y_1,z_1)\chi^{+}\psi_b(x_2,y_2,z_2)\chi^{+}-\psi_a(x_2,y_2,z_2)\chi^{+}\psi_b(x_1,y_1,z_1)\chi^{+}][/tex]

Wave functions are the same as in part b).

How do I distinguish between a singlet and triplet state? I know singlet is S=0, and triplet is S=1, but not quite sure what it wants.
 
Last edited:
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You just can't multiply the spatial wavefunctions arbitrarily by χ+ like that. The spinors themselves must have "1" and "2" subscripts.

It is easier to write the total fermion wavefunction as the product of two separate wavefunctions, one for the spatial part and one for the spin part:

ψ = (spatial)*(spin)

Because we are talking about fermions, the total wavefunction must be antisymmetric under particle exchange. This means the if the spatial part is symmetric, the spin part must be antisymmetric and vice-versa.

I note that the spin triplet state is symmetric under particle exchange while the spin singlet state is antisymmetric.
 


kuruman said:
You just can't multiply the spatial wavefunctions arbitrarily by χ+ like that. The spinors themselves must have "1" and "2" subscripts.

It is easier to write the total fermion wavefunction as the product of two separate wavefunctions, one for the spatial part and one for the spin part:

ψ = (spatial)*(spin)

Because we are talking about fermions, the total wavefunction must be antisymmetric under particle exchange. This means the if the spatial part is symmetric, the spin part must be antisymmetric and vice-versa.

I note that the spin triplet state is symmetric under particle exchange while the spin singlet state is antisymmetric.

By "1" and "2" subscripts do you mean [itex]\chi^\pm[/itex]?
 


No. In your notation, the spin singlet state is

[tex]|0,0>=\frac{\chi^{+}_{1}\chi^{-}_{2}-\chi^{-}_{1}\chi^{+}_{2}}{\sqrt{2}}[/tex]

and the spin triplet has states

[tex]|1,1>=\chi^{+}_{1}\chi^{+}_{2}[/tex]

[tex]|1,0>=\frac{\chi^{+}_{1}\chi^{-}_{2}+\chi^{-}_{1}\chi^{+}_{2}}{\sqrt{2}}[/tex]

[tex]|1,-1>=\chi^{-}_{1}\chi^{-}_{2}[/tex]

Check out their properties under particle exchange. You may also wish to look them up in wikipedia.
 

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