If A, B are n order square matrices, and AB=0, then BA=0?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of square matrices, specifically investigating the relationship between the products of two matrices A and B, where it is given that AB = 0. Participants are tasked with determining whether this implies that BA = 0, and they are encouraged to either prove this or find a counterexample.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Some participants attempt to manipulate the equation AB = 0 using matrix properties, questioning the validity of their reasoning regarding the existence of inverses.
  • Others explore the use of software to analyze specific matrix cases, raising questions about the reliability of such tools in understanding matrix behavior.
  • There is a suggestion to consider specific matrices as potential counterexamples to the original statement.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants sharing their attempts and reasoning. Some have expressed uncertainty about their methods, while others are encouraged to seek counterexamples. There is no explicit consensus yet, but the exploration of specific examples is noted as a productive direction.

Contextual Notes

Participants are reminded that not all matrices have inverses, which is a critical aspect of the discussion. The use of computational tools is also questioned, with concerns about their potential to mislead understanding.

Portuga
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Homework Statement


If A and B are square matrices of same order, prove of find a counter example that if AB = 0 then BA = 0.

Homework Equations


A^{-1} A = I_n, ABC = (AB)C

The Attempt at a Solution


AB = 0 \Rightarrow A^{-1} A B = A^{-1} 0 \Rightarrow (A^{-1} A) B = A^{-1} 0 \Rightarrow I_n B = A^{-1} 0 \Rightarrow B = A^{-1} 0 \Rightarrow B = 0 \Rightarrow BA = 0A = 0.
I am not pretty sure if this procedure really solve the problem, so I would like some advices...
Thanks in advance.
 
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Portuga said:

Homework Statement


If A and B are square matrices of same order, prove of find a counter example that if AB = 0 then BA = 0.

Homework Equations


A^{-1} A = I_n, ABC = (AB)C

The Attempt at a Solution


AB = 0 \Rightarrow A^{-1} A B = A^{-1} 0 \Rightarrow (A^{-1} A) B = A^{-1} 0 \Rightarrow I_n B = A^{-1} 0 \Rightarrow B = A^{-1} 0 \Rightarrow B = 0 \Rightarrow BA = 0A = 0.
I am not pretty sure if this procedure really solve the problem, so I would like some advices...
Thanks in advance.

You cannot assume that ##A^{-1}## exists. Some nonzero ##n \times n## matrices do not have inverses.
 
Ok. I was using sagemath to make some reasonings. So I put there a generic 2x2 A matrix,
\begin{bmatrix} x & y\\ z & t \end{bmatrix}
and solved AB = 0 for B. The software answered that the only solution is a null matrix. That's why I am trying to prove it. Did I miss something?
 
Portuga said:
Ok. I was using sagemath to make some reasonings. So I put there a generic 2x2 A matrix,
\begin{bmatrix} x & y\\ z & t \end{bmatrix}
and solved AB = 0 for B. The software answered that the only solution is a null matrix. That's why I am trying to prove it. Did I miss something?

What about
$$A = \pmatrix{1&1\\1&1}, \: B = \pmatrix{1 & -2 \\-1 & 2} ? $$
Do we have ##AB = 0##? Is ##A \neq 0##? Is ##B \neq 0##?
 
Ray Vickson said:
What about
$$A = \pmatrix{1&1\\1&1}, \: B = \pmatrix{1 & -2 \\-1 & 2} ? $$
Do we have ##AB = 0##? Is ##A \neq 0##? Is ##B \neq 0##?

You should AVOID using software like sagemath or whatever when you are learning the subject. In this case the answers it gives you may be highly misleading, and may cause you to "learn" things that are actually false.
 
Portuga said:
Ok. I was using sagemath to make some reasonings. So I put there a generic 2x2 A matrix,
\begin{bmatrix} x & y\\ z & t \end{bmatrix}
and solved AB = 0 for B. The software answered that the only solution is a null matrix. That's why I am trying to prove it. Did I miss something?

I think what you found there was that the 0 matrix is the only matrix, ##X##, for which:

For all matrices ##A## we have ##AX = 0##
 
Ok, I got the point. So, I should make a counter example. Thanks!
 
Portuga said:
Ok, I got the point. So, I should make a counter example. Thanks!
Let us know what you come up with.
 

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