If the universe came from nothing

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the concept of the universe originating from nothing, examining implications for the nature of existence, physicality, and the definitions of "nothing" and "something." Participants engage in theoretical reasoning, conceptual clarifications, and debates surrounding these ideas.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if the universe came from nothing, it challenges the notion of the universe as a physical entity, suggesting it may be conceptual in nature.
  • Others argue that the definition of "physical entity" could change without negating its existence, and that the perception of physicality is influenced by language and understanding.
  • A participant references Eddington's work, suggesting that if "nothings" can be measured, it implies some form of structure exists, questioning the nature of measurements and their relation to reality.
  • Another participant introduces Pascaul Jordan's idea that the universe's mass/energy could stem solely from negative gravitational potential energy, linking it to the concept of nothingness.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the idea of physical objects, using billiard balls as an analogy to illustrate that what we perceive as solid is largely empty space, complicating the understanding of physicality.
  • There is a contention regarding the assumption that the universe can come from nothing, with some asserting that this premise is self-contradictory, while others maintain it is a valid assumption for discussion.
  • One participant questions the definition of "nothing," suggesting it refers to the absence of things, and challenges the idea that nothing can have properties.
  • Claims are made that science cannot explain why there is something instead of nothing, with some suggesting that it is reasonable to assume something has always existed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of nothingness or the implications of the universe coming from nothing. Multiple competing views remain, particularly regarding the definitions and properties of "nothing" and "something."

Contextual Notes

Discussions involve complex philosophical and theoretical assumptions that are not universally accepted. The definitions of "nothing" and "physicality" are subject to interpretation, and the implications of these definitions are not resolved.

  • #121
out of whack said:
I think we can do better. We can simply realize that the question makes no sense, stop asking it and move on to questions that do make sense.


No, he's right...the only "conclusion" is an answer which cannot be contradicted by further questioning...
 
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  • #122
DaveC426913 said:
So, if I have a box with nothing in it*, and I place a box of plumber's putty in it, have I not destroyed the nothing?

You just moved nothing out of the empty box and put in where the box of putty used to be.
 
  • #123
No, you're taking an empty box and putting a box of putty inside it..you haven't destroyedd the nothing...It's still there as much as the putty is.
 
  • #124
Castlegate said:
So you're saying that the universe can't come from nothing? That the universe had no beginning?

If so - then the universe has always been. Not for x number of years, but for an infinity of years. Yet here we are as time passes, which implies an incomplete infinity, which brings us back to ... the universe had a beginning and that it came from nothing.

All infinities are not equal, however, and such can be proven mathematically. I am uncertain as to where that leaves the argument, but it seems vaguely pertinent.
 
  • #125
This is a very old thread, and the person you are replying to is no longer with us.
 

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