If you think having a backup is too expensive, try not having one

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the importance of data backup strategies in the context of data loss incidents, particularly highlighting a recent event involving a data center fire in South Korea. Participants share personal experiences and historical perspectives on backup practices, emphasizing the need for effective backup and restore strategies in various computing environments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that a significant amount of government data may be permanently lost due to a lack of backups following a data center fire in South Korea.
  • Another shares a historical anecdote about a computer lab where a backup program malfunctioned, resulting in only the last file being saved on tape, illustrating the importance of verifying backup integrity.
  • A participant recounts an experience at an airport where a data center fire led to a reliance on paper check-ins, raising concerns about the effectiveness of backup locations.
  • One contributor discusses the evolution of data center operations, highlighting a shift from tape backups to automated disk-based solutions, while noting the challenges in testing restoration processes.
  • Another participant expresses frustration over a colleague's belief that RAID alone was sufficient for data protection, advocating for more comprehensive backup strategies.
  • A historical perspective is provided by a participant who describes a robust backup system from the 1970s, which included offsite storage of backups and regular tape cycling.
  • Several participants engage in nostalgic reflections on older computing technology, contrasting it with modern devices and expressing a sense of loss for past practices.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of viewpoints regarding the effectiveness of current backup strategies, with some emphasizing the need for thorough testing and others reflecting on past practices. There is no consensus on the best approach to data backup and recovery, as various experiences and opinions are shared.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in current backup strategies, including the reliance on automated systems without adequate testing of restoration processes. There are also concerns about the physical proximity of backups to primary systems, which could lead to simultaneous loss in the event of a disaster.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to IT professionals, data management specialists, and anyone involved in disaster recovery planning or data integrity assurance.

  • #31
FactChecker said:
That is dangerous in companies that deal with classified data. A security person will see that, try it, and you will be fired. A password safe is a better place to store passwords. In the old days, that was a physical safe. Now it is an app.
Of course I would not have done it in that situation. But USGS had been very heavy handed, coming in and demanding that we send them all our data but without even understanding why our data model was more complex than theirs. So we had to do all this extra work to send them dumbed-down data because they didn't actually know anything useful about algae. And then they had this sanctimonious attitude about privacy and security. I was extremely underpaid and overworked, in a research institution that could barely keep its toilets functioning. When we needed that password, we needed it, and it was either write it on paper or send it over email, which would actually be worse I think.

Please understand I did admire a lot of things about USGS, but they were one of the first agencies gutted by the cutbacks of the new administration in 2016. This whole website disappeared overnight, as did the contacts we had at USGS. We couldn't even raise them on the phone and they had never given us cell phones out of an abundance of privacy zeal. And of course, a lot of our funding went with them. The algae data I worked with--a precious scientific resource reaching back to the 1960's covering streams and lakes all over the US--has now all been archived offline, whereas before the funding cuts, it was available to scientists anywhere in the world via my institution's web services.

Well, that is a vent and a digression. I knew it was boneheaded, but I'm just saying that's what people DO when password security goes overboard.
 
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  • #32
FactChecker said:
That is dangerous in companies that deal with classified data. A security person will see that, try it, and you will be fired. A password safe is a better place to store passwords. In the old days, that was a physical safe. Now it is an app.
Demanding people change passwords in that way is a known risk. Password safes will eventually be cracked. I'm possibly a crackpot, but where it's important, I use an automatically-generated password once and then change a few characters to ones I can remember (and don't allow those to be saved).
BTW, I don't need it for online banking because they already have a second stage that serves the same purpose and is slightly more robust. (On the other hand, having the three-digit code printed on the same side of their debit/credit cards as all other details makes them even less secure than they were originally)
 
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  • #33
gyorgiy said:
Demanding people change passwords in that way is a known risk. Password safes will eventually be cracked. I'm possibly a crackpot, but where it's important, I use an automatically-generated password once and then change a few characters to ones I can remember (and don't allow those to be saved).
I think I will not live long enough to worry that someone owning a quantum computer will try to crack my password safe file. IMO, by that time the technology of password safes will offer quantum safe encryption.
 

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