If you were to create a universe

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the hypothetical creation of a universe and the implications of such an act, particularly regarding the purpose of that universe and the nature of consciousness within it. Participants contemplate the relationship between higher intelligence, divinity, and the potential evolution of beings towards a god-like state, as well as the philosophical and theological ramifications of these ideas.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if a universe were created, its purpose would be questioned by conscious beings within it, leading to philosophical inquiries about existence and meaning.
  • Others argue that understanding a higher intelligence or the "mind of God" may require a transformation of human consciousness to a higher level.
  • A viewpoint suggests that humanity is in a continuous transition towards a god-like state, with the potential to evolve beyond current limitations.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the idea of humans becoming god-like, questioning the feasibility of such a transformation.
  • There is a contention regarding the nature of divinity, with some asserting that if a god exists, humans would not be able to take over or equalize with it, while others suggest that a god could be open to equality.
  • One participant raises the idea that God could have evolved, paralleling human development, which introduces a different perspective on the nature of divinity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of divinity and the potential for human evolution towards a god-like state. There is no consensus on these ideas, with some finding the notion humorous or unlikely, while others see it as a serious possibility.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the existence and nature of God, the implications of creating a universe, and the philosophical underpinnings of consciousness and intelligence. These assumptions are not universally accepted and contribute to the ongoing debate.

Freeman Dyson
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Let's say we could create our own universe. Just for the normal scientific reasons...to see what happens/to see if it is possible. So we create some kind of "desktop" universe, something like what Linde and Guth talk about, and eventually conscious beings form and start to inquire about that universe.

The question is: Does this universe have purpose, and what would it be? What answer could be given when these creatures inside the universe start to ask "why"?
 
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Freeman Dyson said:
Let's say we could create our own universe. Just for the normal scientific reasons...to see what happens/to see if it is possible. So we create some kind of "desktop" universe, something like what Linde and Guth talk about, and eventually conscious beings form and start to inquire about that universe.

The question is: Does this universe have purpose, and what would it be? What answer could be given when these creatures inside the universe start to ask "why"?


"If we do discover a theory of everything...it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason—for then we would truly know the mind of God."

Stephen Hawking
 
Just tell them what they want to hear.
 
WaveJumper said:
"If we do discover a theory of everything...it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason—for then we would truly know the mind of God."

Stephen Hawking

If you could comprehend higher intelligence, you would be higher intelligence. I think for us to know the true mind of God or any higher intelligence we would have to be on that level ourselves. Our minds could not only differ in degree, but in kind.

What will mind choose to do when it informs and controls the universe? That is a question which we cannot hope to answer. When mind has expanded its physical reach and its biological organization by many powers of ten beyond the human scale, we can no more expect to understand its thoughts and dreams than a Monarch butterfly can understand ours. Mind can answer our question only as God answered Job out of the whirlwind, "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?"

In contemplating the future of mind in the universe, we have exhausted the resources of our puny human science. This is the point at which science ends and theology begins.

-Freeman Dyson
 
Freeman Dyson said:
If you could comprehend higher intelligence, you would be higher intelligence. I think for us to know the true mind of God or any higher intelligence we would have to be on that level ourselves. Our minds could not only differ in degree, but in kind.



-Freeman Dyson




I agree. Although it may lie in the very far future, it doesn't conradict what i take to be a real possibility for our transition from wild animal to human to ... (place your own perspective of what a god is supposed to be like). The transition is ongoing, though we are still more on the animalish side.
 
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WaveJumper said:
I agree. Although it may lie in the very far future, it doesn't conradict what i take to be a real possibility for our transition from pure animal to human to ... (place your own perspective of what a god is supposed to be like). The transition is ongoing, though we are still more on the animalish side.

I'm thinking maybe we become God in the far future too. Like we grow into it eventually. It is our destiny. It is our deepest identity and highest potential. One isn't born a God. It takes a long time. We have to be ready.

"God is a metaphor for that which trancends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that."

-Joseph Campbell.

"People say that what we're all seeking is a meaning for life. I don't think that's what we're really seeking. I think what we're seeking is an experience of being alive, so that our life experiences on the purely physical plane will have resonance within our own innermost being and reality, so that we actually feel the rapture of being alive. That's what it's all finally about. "

-Joseph Campbell

I agree with that. We have a feeling that our deepest indentity is something else. Not quite yet realized. Something greater than what it appears to be now. Do you have that feeling?

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."

-CS Lewis
 
I find your idea of man becoming god funny on many levels. I personally don't see it happening any time soon. I guess it could be possible god would decide to give up almighty power to an ant... It is possible isn't it?
 
magpies said:
I find your idea of man becoming god funny on many levels. I personally don't see it happening any time soon. I guess it could be possible god would decide to give up almighty power to an ant... It is possible isn't it?

Well we already make computer simulations of entire universes... I one time played god in a computer game Black and White... that was fun. I don't see why this concept is funny and I don't see why humans can't transcend to 'god' level.
 
The answer to that is... because god is already there. If you can find a way to behead god and take over his job then I guess its possible. Playing god in a computer game is nothing like being god imo.
 
  • #10
magpies said:
The answer to that is... because god is already there. If you can find a way to behead god and take over his job then I guess its possible. Playing god in a computer game is nothing like being god imo.

Well if we create a univeres simulation and make it build life then how are we not gods?
 
  • #11
magpies said:
The answer to that is... because god is already there. If you can find a way to behead god and take over his job then I guess its possible. Playing god in a computer game is nothing like being god imo.

I am not assuming a God already exists though. But assuming there is, we wouldn't be taking over. We would be equals.
 
  • #12
To Sorry!... Because it is only a simulation I suppose.

To Freeman Dyson... Assuming a god does not already exist will lead you to acting differently then if you did assume a god exists. Just as changing your mind on any issue would. Do you understand what assuming a god doesn't exist does to you?

Also if a god does exist it is possible that god would be ok with being equals and of course its also possible that god would not be ok. I think it really depends on the type of god you think exists. I would personally not bet on it being ok with someone like me being an equal with it. With my understanding of god I would say the possiblity of me ever being an equal with is zero. That does imply that I am less special but still special and I'll take that greatfully.
 
  • #13
Why couldn't God have evolved? Maybe "he" started out as small and with as humble roots as we did. Maybe he is still evolving.
 

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