I'm about to do something dangerous

[Danger]

I'm starting to worry I might have used up most of my 9 lives already.

Not to worry. There's still plenty of Whiskas and Purina.

My girls have to this day considered me to be wonder woman for getting us into the house.

Given the frequency with which you get locked out, maybe you really should come and live with me. Maybe your house is still haunted, but now all the spook does is close doors.

 

[Artman]

Evo, this scares the heck out of me too. I had to cut down some trees recently. A friend and I used a chainsaw on a tree about twenty feet from my house. We planned it carefully, put a rope around the tree over a high branch, my friend started our cuts, I was holding the rope (rope was just in case), the tree started to creak and began to drop backward toward the house. The trunk pinched down of the saw and shut it down. I ran and got my garden tracktor, attached it to the rope and pulled it over in the right direction. We were lucky. The tree looked like it should have fallen properly, we cut it correctly, but the overall shape of the tree put it's center of gravity too far back toward the house. If we hadn't put the rope on first it would have hit the house.

1. Use ropes (The come-along or winch that BT suggested is a great idea).
2. Look at the entire shape of the branch.
3. Acess the fall path as best you can.
4. Plan your own escape routes and open them.
5. Don't work on this alone (at least get someone to watch you.)
6. consider what will happen when the branch hits the ground. (will it hit and roll, hit and spin to the wrong direction, hit and spring, etc?)

Please be careful.

 

[JamesU]

Is it that difficult to call a professional?

 

[cronxeh]

Dirty old man...

When I read this 15 seconds ago I was sipping some coffee, which is now all over my shirt and in my nose

Thanks

 

[Moonbear]

Evo, this scares the heck out of me too. I had to cut down some trees recently. A friend and I used a chainsaw on a tree about twenty feet from my house. We planned it carefully, put a rope around the tree over a high branch, my friend started our cuts, I was holding the rope (rope was just in case), the tree started to creak and began to drop backward toward the house. The trunk pinched down of the saw and shut it down. I ran and got my garden tracktor, attached it to the rope and pulled it over in the right direction. We were lucky. The tree looked like it should have fallen properly, we cut it correctly, but the overall shape of the tree put it's center of gravity too far back toward the house. If we hadn't put the rope on first it would have hit the house.

1. Use ropes (The come-along or winch that BT suggested is a great idea).
2. Look at the entire shape of the branch.
3. Acess the fall path as best you can.
4. Plan your own escape routes and open them.
5. Don't work on this alone (at least get someone to watch you.)
6. consider what will happen when the branch hits the ground. (will it hit and roll, hit and spin to the wrong direction, hit and spring, etc?)

Please be careful.

Yes, some safety lines on the branch itself are an excellent idea. That way, even if it suddenly snaps free and starts heading the wrong way, it can't fall too far and cause injury or damage something you don't want damaged. Or, if you don't have something taller nearby to rig up the ropes to hold the branch up, then at least have them pulling it away from where you will be so it can't rebound back at you on a bounce. If you use a come-along, you won't want to pull it too tight or you risk snapping the branch and having it come flying at you while you're still tightening the winch. Just use it to pull up the slack in the rope and maybe provide light tension (you don't need to create a catapult for your tree branch). Keep BOTH ends of the branch in mind when deciding which way it's going to go. Depending on the overall shape of the branch and configuration of your ropes, if you have it rigged up so the top gets pulled away from you, the part that's currently touching the ground could swing around and knock you right off your feet.

 

[Moonbear]

When I read this 15 seconds ago I was sipping some coffee, which is now all over my shirt and in my nose

Thanks

Uh oh! You've been hanging around Evo too long!

 

[Artman]

Uh oh! You've been hanging around Evo too long!

<SNORT!>
___

Get on the Snortmobile and ride!

Evo, please keep us informed on the tree branch saga.

 

[Evo]

The tree itself if fine, it was just a large top branch that broke, which I am trying to remove, so there is no danger of the tree itself falling. Since it fell over, the branch is now pointing down toward the ground, so there is no way to throw anything over a branch to cut it as it would just slide down the branch, everything is upside down. Know what I mean? If it were upright, it would be easier to cut. It's about 14' long and LOTS of smaller branches. It's like an upside down fan.

Thanks for your concern, I am actually very cautious.

 

[Craps]

Tell me when you finish them all off

 

[Evo]

Yes, some safety lines on the branch itself are an excellent idea. That way, even if it suddenly snaps free and starts heading the wrong way, it can't fall too far and cause injury or damage something you don't want damaged. Or, if you don't have something taller nearby to rig up the ropes to hold the branch up, then at least have them pulling it away from where you will be so it can't rebound back at you on a bounce. If you use a come-along, you won't want to pull it too tight or you risk snapping the branch and having it come flying at you while you're still tightening the winch. Just use it to pull up the slack in the rope and maybe provide light tension (you don't need to create a catapult for your tree branch). Keep BOTH ends of the branch in mind when deciding which way it's going to go. Depending on the overall shape of the branch and configuration of your ropes, if you have it rigged up so the top gets pulled away from you, the part that's currently touching the ground could swing around and knock you right off your feet.

What I've done is start cutting it up from the ground going up towards the break, this way I'm not dealing with a huge Evo killing branch of DOOM. Now it's down to a few main branches. Hmmm, maybe I'll sketch it and post what it looks like so you guys can help me figure out how to remove the top section. Unless either my older daughter returns my digital camera, or I find the cord for my new one so I can take a picture of it.

 

[FredGarvin]

Today I did something really stupid. I tried to pour my own cement...from a cement company that sells it mixed in a trailer you tow behind your car. It was too much weight for my car and even tho I was doing only 15 mph, I couldn't stop and ended up flipping the trailer and dumping 4 sq yards of wet cement across the road.

What kind of car do you drive?? I can't believe the cement company let you drive off with that! You do realize that, conservatively, you had about 7300 Lbf of cement, not to mention the weight of the trailer. I don't think my truck has that towing capacity.

 

[Astronuc]

Today I did something really stupid. I tried to pour my own cement...from a cement company that sells it mixed in a trailer you tow behind your car.

hypatia, like everyone else here, I am sorry to hear about your bad day.

I am still not recovered from the shock of the OP, which brings me to a suggestion for the PF Sisters.

Ladies, Please!, before you do something like cutting a tree, getting on a roof, or towing cement, post about it first. There a number of experienced gentlemen who can offer advice on how to, and if one of them happens to be close enough, one of us might be able to help.

Personally, I think you gals are trying to age us into early graves.

 

[Moonbear]

Personally, I think you gals are trying to age us into early graves.

Isn't that better reason for us to just wait until after it's all done so we can just say, "I'm okay" before telling the rest of the story?

Hmm...and how come you only tell us gals to post first? What about all the young fellas around here who have never done this stuff before either? Most of the guys I've dated have been far more incompetent about yard work than I am.

From the original post, I thought the whole top of the tree had broken off and fallen over, but now that I realize it's just one branch, that's not so bad.

Evo, if you're up on a ladder cutting it, be sure to try to keep an arm around the part of the tree you aren't cutting. That way if it does manage to knock the ladder out from under you, you're hanging onto something that isn't going to fall (how you get down after that, I don't know, but your odds are better dropping down from a tree branch you're dangling from than falling backward with a ladder and branch landing on you). Even better, before starting to cut, tie your ladder to the tree trunk to stabilize it. But just climbing a ladder resting against a tree is hazardous enough. You're not exactly leaning against a stable, flat surface, like the side of a house.

I'm a little confused about how you're cutting the branch from the bottom up (or the end toward the trunk). Once you've cut off the part resting on the ground, it sounds like it will be more dangerous because it'll be wiggling all over the place while cutting it. What's the diameter of this branch at the base?

 

[Evo]

From the original post, I thought the whole top of the tree had broken off and fallen over, but now that I realize it's just one branch, that's not so bad.

It is the top of the tree, or one of the tops, it's a weeping willow, so there isn't one single top. It's as big around as my thigh, but I can close my fingers around my thigh.

Evo, if you're up on a ladder cutting it, be sure to try to keep an arm around the part of the tree you aren't cutting. That way if it does manage to knock the ladder out from under you, you're hanging onto something that isn't going to fall (how you get down after that, I don't know, but your odds are better dropping down from a tree branch you're dangling from than falling backward with a ladder and branch landing on you). Even better, before starting to cut, tie your ladder to the tree trunk to stabilize it.

Can't do it because of branches.

I'm a little confused about how you're cutting the branch from the bottom up (or the end toward the trunk). Once you've cut off the part resting on the ground, it sounds like it will be more dangerous because it'll be wiggling all over the place while cutting it. What's the diameter of this branch at the base?

Here is a picture that looks like my tree (or did before the top broke) it's not your average tree http://www.borkgardencenter.com/Shade/Images/WillowWeeping.jpg

 

[Evo]

Here's a sparse tree, but you can see the branches. Let's say that big branch in the back of this picture was at the top of my fuller tree, and it's broken in half, and hanging down to the ground, and there are hundreds of branches.

http://www.cordula.ws/willow01.jpg

 

[zoobyshoe]

Here is a picture that looks like my tree (or did before the top broke) it's not your average tree

It's large, but looks completely passive. I detect no ferocity, or even aggressive tendencies. I think Evo will be fine.

 

[Astronuc]

Isn't that better reason for us to just wait until after it's all done so we can just say, "I'm okay" before telling the rest of the story?

No!

Hmm...and how come you only tell us gals to post first? What about all the young fellas around here who have never done this stuff before either? Most of the guys I've dated have been far more incompetent about yard work than I am.

My thoughts here are that most of the younger folks do not own a home, but rather they live in an apartment which has staff, or they live with parents. I hope the younger folks take note and ask questions of us older folk - they already do with regard to math, physics, engineering, etc. Moonbear, as for the men you date, I suspect the others sisters could say the same.

Evo, if you're up on a ladder cutting it, be sure to try to keep an arm around the part of the tree you aren't cutting. That way if it does manage to knock the ladder out from under you, you're hanging onto something that isn't going to fall (how you get down after that, I don't know, but your odds are better dropping down from a tree branch you're dangling from than falling backward with a ladder and branch landing on you). Even better, before starting to cut, tie your ladder to the tree trunk to stabilize it. But just climbing a ladder resting against a tree is hazardous enough. You're not exactly leaning against a stable, flat surface, like the side of a house.

I would still recommend a tree pruning saw (also called a pole saw) on a long pole - with a curved blade, which looks something like - http://www.stoneypoint.com/polesaw_index.html

I'm a little confused about how you're cutting the branch from the bottom up (or the end toward the trunk). Once you've cut off the part resting on the ground, it sounds like it will be more dangerous because it'll be wiggling all over the place while cutting it. What's the diameter of this branch at the base?

Picture or sketch please!

 

[Astronuc]

It is the top of the tree, or one of the tops, it's a weeping willow, so there isn't one single top. It's as big around as my thigh, but I can close my fingers around my thigh.

I presume that is the fingers of both hands. The branch could easily weigh 100 lbs or more and dropping 5 or 10 ft, it can do some damage!

One useful technique in order to prevent the saw from getting trapped is to use a V-cut. It's take a little more effort because there are two-cuts per V.

When I take out an entire tree, I use that technique with a chain saw, and I am pretty good at putting a tree where I want it. I also have used a chainsaw up in a tree (while holding on to the trunk with one leg) in order to drop the top 10 feet of a 30+ foot tree. Do not do that unless you know what you are doing! Better for most people to call a professional service.

 

[Moonbear]

I would still recommend a tree pruning saw (also called a pole saw) on a long pole - with a curved blade, which looks something like - http://www.stoneypoint.com/polesaw_index.html

I still need to get myself one of those too. I have some dead branches in my oak tree that need to be removed. Nothing on the scale of Evo's branch, the thickest of the ones that need triming is only about 2 inches in diameter; big pruning shears would do the job (those "loppers" as Evo calls them, which is what I used to call them too). Plus, I have one branch that's growing out over the house that I want to trim back while it's still just thin branches that would hit the house (and nope, I don't plan to trim it from the rooftop this time). None of these branches would be dangerous even if they just broke off on their own (assuming I wasn't standing under them when they did), but they don't look very pretty. Actually, the main branches would be easier to cut than these twigs. The tree I have has a very nice shape amenable to climbing (when I first moved here, it had a board I needed to surgically remove from the side that looked like its earlier purpose was as a makeshift ladder to facilitate climbing the first 4 ft of trunk that is free of branches...a few years more of sitting there, and I don't think it would have been possible to remove it at all since the tree had already started to grow around it).

I have a pine tree that makes me very nervous. That one would require professional removal (and it's going to have to go in the next few years). It's between my house and my neighbor's house (appears it was planted on the edge of my property to provide privacy when it was smaller). It's getting very tall (it's now taller than my second floor) and is not very wide, nor is there room for branches at the base to get any wider, and there isn't much direction for the roots to grow in. If the wind ever took it, it's going to take my deck with it, possibly some of the fence, and the neighbor's sidewalk. To remove it, it's going to have to have all the branches cut off first, and then cut off the main trunk in sections, because there just isn't any direction it can fall without causing damage to something (well, in theory, if I open my gate, it can fall through the gate opening safely, but can you really get a tree to fall precisely centered within a 3 foot opening, and perfectly straight so the top doesn't hit the fence?) So, let the professionals do that one and let their insurance pay for repairing whatever it hits on the way down. The neighbor's fence on that side is too new to just wait for him to need a new fence before I take that tree out.

 

[Moonbear]

Do not do that unless you know what you are doing! Better for most people to call a professional service.

I love when people give that advice. But, at some point, you had to do it a first time when you didn't exactly know what you were doing in order to learn to do it, right? So, the lesson here, Evo, is that men are more expendable than women, so let them do these crazy things without any prior experience.

 

[Evo]

Moonbear, as for the men you date, I suspect the others sisters could say the same.

All of the men I have dated were mechanically challenged.

 

[brewnog]

Here's what's going through my mind!

 

[Evo]

Here's what's going through my mind!

That's it!

 

[FredGarvin]

Here's what's going through my mind!

Thanks to the latest in CAD/CAM modelling and rendering software, Brewnog highlights the engineering limitations of the stuation.

 

[brewnog]

Thanks to the latest in CAD/CAM modelling and rendering software, Brewnog highlights the engineering limitations of the stuation.

Hell yeah!

3 years of ProE, 2 years of technical drawing classes, a few months experience in AutoCad, and working as a graphic designer for my dad's printing firm have really paid off!

 

[Danger]

Hell yeah!

3 years of ProE, 2 years of technical drawing classes, a few months experience in AutoCad, and working as a graphic designer for my dad's printing firm have really paid off!

I've always sort of wanted to have Autocad, just as a convenience. Having seen it in action, I definitely have to have it!

 

[brewnog]

I took the liberty of using my vast knowledge of modelling techniques to construct a finite element model of Evo's situation.

Can you guess what assumptions and simplifications I made in my model?

 

[FredGarvin]

Brewnog is taking advantage of the Crayon-64 color box expansion pack for Pro/E. I'm envious.

 

[brewnog]

Brewnog is taking advantage of the Crayon-64 color box expansion pack for Pro/E. I'm envious.

You're just jealous that I've got the freehand toolbar on my special ProE - "Lazy Student" edition.

 

[Astronuc]

I love when people give that advice. But, at some point, you had to do it a first time when you didn't exactly know what you were doing in order to learn to do it, right? So, the lesson here, Evo, is that men are more expendable than women, so let them do these crazy things without any prior experience.

I got my experience when I was young and single - and perhaps a lot more daring. I started climbing trees when I was 6, and my brother and I climbed everything in the yard and elsewhere.

I used to split wood at my grandfather's starting at age 7. I dropped my first tree at age 12. I did weight-training starting at age 14, and have done it on and off for more than 30 years.

I worked high iron for several years, learning from others with experience. I also took the most dangerous jobs, because 1) I didn't trust anyone else, 2) I don't let anyone do a job that I don't do myself. I have seen too many close calls, and I have survived and walked away from accidents that would have killed or severely disabled most people.

Plus, people here are like family, and I don't like to see any of my family get hurt.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Plus, people here are like family, and I don't like to see any of my family get hurt.

Oh, I don't know about this. Sounds to me like you're drooling around the bush.

 

[Astronuc]

Oh, I don't know about this. Sounds to me like you're drooling around the bush.

Not sure what that means.

The point is I that have practical and professional experience, so I don't minimize a job which involves heavy objects and sharp implements. I have seen professionals get hurt.

When I do tree work or other heavy labor, I use appropriate equipment, e.g. hard hat (especially with overhead work), impact-resistant safety glasses, steel-toed boots, tool belt with safety harness, and leather or other safety gloves when handling chain saw or tree saws.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Not sure what that means.

Very well, then.

 

[Evo]

I took the liberty of using my vast knowledge of modelling techniques to construct a finite element model of Evo's situation.

Can you guess what assumptions and simplifications I made in my model?

Oh dear, am I all of the red splotches or just the one under the arrow?

 

[Danger]

Can you guess what assumptions and simplifications I made in my model?

You have assumed that the wood has a very peculiar grain structure, and that Evo is a mathematical point. You also seem to assume that she is going to haul out the beaver and gnaw the tree down, because there is no saw in the picture.

 

[JamesU]

Oh dear, am I all of the red splotches or just the one under the arrow?

Red "splotches"

 

[Artman]

You also seem to assume that she is going to haul out the beaver and gnaw the tree down, because there is no saw in the picture.

Haul out the ol gnawing beaver, eh. heh heh heh




You had to know i couldn't let that one go by.

 

[Evo]

You have assumed that the wood has a very peculiar grain structure, and that Evo is a mathematical point. You also seem to assume that she is going to haul out the beaver and gnaw the tree down, because there is no saw in the picture.

When will I learn that I can't drink and read at the same time? I'm going to have to make a waterproof cover for my laptop.

 

[Huckleberry]

Haul out the ol gnawing beaver, eh. heh heh heh




You had to know i couldn't let that one go by.

I would never expect you to let one go by. I would think that you would miss one once in a while though.

 

[JamesU]

When will I learn that I can't drink and read at the same time? I'm going to have to make a waterproof cover for my laptop.

It happens to everyone. Everytime danger posts, somebody ends up sneezing/spitting crap onto their keyboard


THE SMILES MOVED AGAIN!

 

[FredGarvin]

Whip out the beaver...(shaking my head)...That's funny.

 

[Astronuc]

Tree trimming equipment

Here are some examples of tree pruning equipment

http://about.pricegrabber.com/search_attrib.php?page_id=1105&form_keyword=tree+pruner&rd=1

Tree pruner (I have one like this)
http://about.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=3167676/search=tree+pruner

Apparently the industry is moving toward mechanized tree pruning equipment, with small motors, either electric or gasoline powered. Best to get fiberglass pole, which is lighter than wood, and does not conduct electricity like a metal pole (assuming one is trimming around power lines).